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So I got an Idol 3 5.5 that fell from 15cm off the ground and of course broke it's screen, so a friend gave me his old iPhone 4S as a replacement until I decide what I will do with the Alcatel. I'm a semi-professional photographer and have been using SLRs and DSLRs for some 15 years. I am astounded how good the camera on the 4 and (almost) a half years old iPhone 4s is, especially compared to the half year old Alcatel. But it's not that the iPhone is excellent (although it is), the Alcatel is, well, not so good.
So, here's a test I did. I photographed the same subject in the same lighting conditions (artifical constant indoor light so no variations in lighting between shots) from the same position, maybe a few milimeteres to the side (not farther or closer to skew the perspective/depth of field).
Photos in next post so I can add attachments to it
Are you kidding me, I can't post photos?
You should not have expected superb photo quality. The cost of the phone speaks for itself.
Can't tell if you are trolling or not.
How are you a semi-professional photographer and comparing an iPhone to the Idol 3. There is more to cameras than just megapixels you know and Apple is known for having top-of-the-line cameras in their phones. Also, if you are an avid photographer, why did it take you getting an iPhone in order to confirm that you don't like the Idol 3 photos?
lying about what though? I don't think they claimed to take better pics than an iphone 4s?
OK guys, it would all make much more sense if I could post photos, but I was actually not comparing the photo quality from iPhone and Alcatel, but rather the exposure values, where the EXIF suggests that the lens on the Alcatel is not f/2.0, but actually something smaller. In the same lighting conditions the iPhone photo had these values:
f/2.4, 1/20s, ISO 200
and the Idol 3:
f/2.0, 1/50s, ISO 1800
and this suggests that there is significantly less light coming to the chip of the Alcatel (almost three stops less). I have tested the exposure value of this situation with my Nikon and it is in sync with the iPhone EXIF values. Also, depth-of-field of the image on the Alcatel when compared to the iPhone is also confirming this. I'm not here to bash Alcatel and would actually be glad if anyone could prove me wrong! Maybe my unit is defective?Please, try to shoot the same frame with the Alcatel and some other camera and compare the exposure values.
I wouldn't say they're lying.
The sensor on the Idol 3 is a Sony IMX214 which has an aperture of f/2.0.
It's a very good sensor, but the camera lens is not as good as the sensor used.
The Nexus 6 & OnePlus One have the same sensor, but the lens used are far superior than one ones on the Idol 3. (Same f/2.0)
I'll say again, the price of the phone speaks for itself.
Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk
Yeah I know that this sensor is used in a variety of cameras and have seen images from the 1+ and they were great! But again, I'm not talking about the quality of the image, I'm talking about it's objective performance in terms of the amount of light that comes to the sensor which seems to be less than they state it should be.
I just remembered that the camera app has that "Pro" mode which makes it possible to manually input the ISO and shutter speed so I will try to do it again comparing it to the iPhone, DSLR and my wife's Sony T3 later today.
I'm sure they used a lens of lower quality but it shouldn't block almost three stops of light compared to other lenses.
Hemidrosis said:
I wouldn't say they're lying.
The sensor on the Idol 3 is a Sony IMX214 which has an aperture of f/2.0.
It's a very good sensor, but the camera lens is not as good as the sensor used.
The Nexus 6 & OnePlus One have the same sensor, but the lens used are far superior than one ones on the Idol 3. (Same f/2.0)
I'll say again, the price of the phone speaks for itself.
Sent from my 6045O using Tapatalk
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1 -
mrkva123 said:
I'm not here to bash Alcatel and would actually be glad if anyone could prove me wrong!
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and in topic you said that Alcatel is lying.
2-how you managed to shoot photos with your idol3 when it has a broken screen? Cant it be,that your idol3 camera chip or camera lenses are affected after the fall of the device?As a photographer you should know that there is heavy postprocesing and when you use poorly written software it is also bad as hell.
3- you can show usThe pictures using a link to a cloud where you can upload it.
4-The picture quality is not only made by chip. There are also lenses and a software. You can see it everywhere on chineese low budget phones. They use IMX214 bud bad optics and poor software and the pictures look bad. Also you can see it on Alcatel idol3 app that the app has a problem with propper exposure recognition (i have always to tap to a screen on a place i want to have propper exposure metering from).
So in end effect i dont defence ALcatels picture quality it can be far better with software optimalisation. But as many users said before, you cant compare iphone camera to idol3 camera. They are on different levels and as a photographer you should known that time of release is not a comparable fact (you mentioned 4 years old iphone 4....).
Anyway ...who cares?
I'm not saying that they are lying definitely but I'm just asking cause this sounds strange.
Yeah, I can use the phone although its screen is broken since only one part (lower) of the screen is not functioning and the phone is flippable, so I need to constantly flip it to use different parts of the screen.
I sincerely doubt that the fall damaged the camera or any parts of it cause everything works, no artifacts or anything else.
Once again, this has nothing to do with the quality of the lens, chip, software or anything else. Image shot at f/2.0, 1/50s and ISO 200 will have the same exposure value (it would look to be equally light or dark) whether it was shot on an Alcatel Idol 3 or a professional Hasselblad medium-format 50 000 € camera or a film camera, or a camera obscura. Exposure is objectively measurable and is expressed with these values, nothing to do with the quality of the parts used and nothing to do with the quality of the photo, it's just the amount of light, not the quality of it or the image!
I have uploaded the photos to a image hosting service but I can't link to them, I tried numerous times.
DallasCZ said:
1 - and in topic you said that Alcatel is lying.
2-how you managed to shoot photos with your idol3 when it has a broken screen? Cant it be,that your idol3 camera chip or camera lenses are affected after the fall of the device?As a photographer you should know that there is heavy postprocesing and when you use poorly written software it is also bad as hell.
3- you can show usThe pictures using a link to a cloud where you can upload it.
4-The picture quality is not only made by chip. There are also lenses and a software. You can see it everywhere on chineese low budget phones. They use IMX214 bud bad optics and poor software and the pictures look bad. Also you can see it on Alcatel idol3 app that the app has a problem with propper exposure recognition (i have always to tap to a screen on a place i want to have propper exposure metering from).
So in end effect i dont defence ALcatels picture quality it can be far better with software optimalisation. But as many users said before, you cant compare iphone camera to idol3 camera. They are on different levels and as a photographer you should known that time of release is not a comparable fact (you mentioned 4 years old iphone 4....).
Anyway ...who cares?
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I use the app A better camera for making photos and especially indoor photos are much better than using the standard app.
It's made by Almalence which is also making the software for some phone and camera manufacturers.
so, here are the images
first I shot with the iPhone since it can only shoot full auto:
http://imgur.com/CE9xNOc
EXIF says that it's:
1/20 sec, ISO 160 and f/2.4
So I set the Alcatel in the manual mode as follows to be as close to the iPhone shot:
1/30 sec, ISO 200 and the aperture is according to Alcatel, f/2.0 (although when I shot it in manual mode the aperture value is mysteriously omitted from the EXIF). the photo from the Alcatel should be brighter on these settings!
and here's what we get:
http://imgur.com/7d7c407
Once again, this has nothing to do with quality of the camera or any other parts involved, it's not that the Alcatel is worse, it is wrong.
And I finally managed to post photos
can someone please take a photo with the Idol 3 and some other cellphone in the same lighting conditions and scene just to confirm this?
you can check the EXIF values here: http://regex.info/exif.cgi
and write down the exposure values that you get from both phones.
mrkva123 said:
And I finally managed to post photos
can someone please take a photo with the Idol 3 and some other cellphone in the same lighting conditions and scene just to confirm this?
you can check the EXIF values here: http://regex.info/exif.cgi
and write down the exposure values that you get from both phones.
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i see what are you trying to tell, but i as i said, its a mobile phone i dont care.
But as i remember, there was same issue on my previous ZTE V5..the first firmwares said,that the aperture is 2.2 ...people complain about it and they have corrected it in next firmware.
So here can it be also. Ask on redit or in main XDa QA section, maybe someone who better understands optics and photograpy will tell you.
easyriider said:
I use the app A better camera for making photos and especially indoor photos are much better than using the standard app.
It's made by Almalence which is also making the software for some phone and camera manufacturers.
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Awesome! Just installed it and it is definitely the best camera app I have used on this phone. :good:
TallTommy said:
Awesome! Just installed it and it is definitely the best camera app I have used on this phone. :good:
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Agree! Because of you I gave it a try, amazing app + Now it's on sale. Wow
I don't know whether they are lying about the specs of the camera but mine is constantly collecting dust on the inside of the rear lens (already had it cleaned once and it is starting again). Never happened with any other phone I ever had and basically renders the rear camera useless within few weeks.
petertakov said:
I don't know whether they are lying about the specs of the camera but mine is constantly collecting dust on the inside of the rear lens (already had it cleaned once and it is starting again). Never happened with any other phone I ever had and basically renders the rear camera useless within few weeks.
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I have no single piece of dust on my camera..i have it for about 9 months allready.
My camera is also perfectly clean after more than half a year. I don't think they are lying about the specs. I suspect that the problem here is in the t-stop, which no lens manufacturer ever tells you about. The lens on the idol 3 is probably f/2 as they claim, but the amount of light that reaches the sensor has almost nothing to do with the f-stop, it's the t-stop that determines that. You can't actually rely on the f/stop for exposure (though it's a good approximation, usually), the f/stop is really only accurate for the depth of field that you get. I suspect that the t-stop on the idol 3 is lower than the one of the iPhone, while the t-stop of the iPhone happens to be more similar to the one of your DSLR lens. Though I have to say, the exposure difference in the photos you posted is very dramatic, maybe about 2 stops? I don't know if the t-stop can cause such a big difference.
That said, you could also easily test if the idol 3 camera is actually f/2. The idol 3 has a 6.1mm x 4.64mm sensor, and an 3.8mm focal length. Considering the sensor size, the crop factor is 7,2. As you probably know, the crop factor not only affects the focal length, but also the f/stop (and in fact also the ISO, but that doesn't matter now). So the idol 3 has a 35mm equivalent f/stop of f/2 x 7,2= f/14.4 (as far as DoF is concerned, not the exposure, obviously. This is the reason that it's so hard to get nice background blur on photos from smartphones unless you are very close up, it's because they have crazy small apertures like our idol 3 here at f/14.4. Again this is ONLY for DoF, not exposure. Basically because the sensor is very small, the aperture being small doesn't matter for exposure, the amount of light per pixel is about the same as if it was f/2 with a 35mm sensor.)
So, you could grab your Full Frame DSLR, set it to 27,4mm and f/14.4, (or if you have a 1.5x crop sensor DSLR, at 18.2mm and f/9.6), and then take a test picture with that DSLR and one with the idol 3. It's a DoF test shot, so take that into account when taking the photos (maybe set up a couple of items in a row, get them in frame in the same way on the idol 3 and DSLR, and focus on the frontmost item). The pictures from the DSLR and idol 3 should look about the same, DoF wise. The idol 3 will likely be noisier and not as sharp, and the exposure may be different too, but if the DoF is very different, then the idol 3 is not f/2. Setting up the DoF test shots might be tricky, because the minimum focusing distance is probably very different on the idol 3 and DSLR, but if you take these test shots we will at least know for certain if it is f/2 or not.
petertakov said:
I don't know whether they are lying about the specs of the camera but mine is constantly collecting dust on the inside of the rear lens (already had it cleaned once and it is starting again). Never happened with any other phone I ever had and basically renders the rear camera useless within few weeks.
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Click to collapse
"Dust in the lens, all we are is dust in the lens..." lol No problems here, and everyone is free to do what they want with their phones, but I assume you are not using a full coverage case? I really can't believe some of the things I see people complain about when they don't use a quality case, and nowadays, a 9H glass screen protector. Not picking on you, and it's possible, even likely you got a bad unit. But "I dropped my phone, and I can't believe the pos shattered! I read it had blah blah next generation glass!" That one really makes me laugh.
And as far as the camera, There are lots of options for downloading/porting other cameras, with better settings and software. It's a $200 cell phone, and taking good pics is something that is important to me, so I always do a little searching on the forums of the new phones I get. I only paid $109 from Cricket, but even at $249 retail, what you get for the money is an amazing piece of technology, not a dedicated top of the line camera. And picture quality is somewhat subjective when you are talking about contrast, exposure, and saturation. Just one man's opinion....
The wide angle default camera known as the Ov12a10 from Omnivision is well known and has a spec shet on the web site. See here: http://www.ovt.com/download/sensorpdf/239/OmniVision_OV12A10.pdf
It is interesting that the telephoto (2x) lens on the Mi A1 is nominated as an ov 13880 i, also from OmniVision has no known spec sheet and is not in any of the end of life docs (EOL) on the web site I can find.
One site did come up with a editorial noting the camera but noted it as a 13mp sensor and vastly better frame rates for video than Xaiomi claims. See link below.
https://www.unifore.net/company-hig...-ov13880-and-ov5880-camera-image-sensors.html
I wonder if the Unifore site got things wrong or there is more to this camera than meets the eye.
As a side note, are people aware that to activate the second camera you need to go into options > manual > lens and click on on wide. By clicking on the "1x" symbol on the main screen of the camera app, you are still using the wide angle lens in digital zoom mode.
Wait so it doesn't switch the lenses while you zoom in and out? It's useless :/
ГАСООП said:
Wait so it doesn't switch the lenses while you zoom in and out? It's useless :/
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I never said that. Reread my post. I said you need to change the lens in manual mode to get optical zoom. Clicking on the 1x button from the main screen only offers digital zoom.
ludditefornow said:
The wide angle default camera known as the Ov12a10 from Omnivision is well known and has a spec shet on the web site. See here: http://www.ovt.com/download/sensorpdf/239/OmniVision_OV12A10.pdf
It is interesting that the telephoto (2x) lens on the Mi A1 is nominated as an ov 13880 i, also from OmniVision has no known spec sheet and is not in any of the end of life docs (EOL) on the web site I can find.
One site did come up with a editorial noting the camera but noted it as a 13mp sensor and vastly better frame rates for video than Xaiomi claims. See link below.
https://www.unifore.net/company-hig...-ov13880-and-ov5880-camera-image-sensors.html
I wonder if the Unifore site got things wrong or there is more to this camera than meets the eye.
As a side note, are people aware that to active the second camera you need to go into options > manual > lens and click on on wide. By clicking on the "1x" symbol on the main screen of the camera app, you are still using the wide angle lens in digital zoom mode.
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I really didn't know till now, I wonder why they put that option for digital zoom there and not for optical zoom, that's pointless.
Edwin Hamal said:
I really didn't know till now, I wonder why they put that option for digital zoom there and not for optical zoom, that's pointless.
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One possible use for it is to assist with checking focus, but other than that I would never use digital zoom.
If someone had a method of linking that 1x option to actually changing to the tele lens, that would be a nice modification.
2x button should change to optical zoom in very bright light only (sunny outside). If you want to force it, you need to use manual mode. I guess it's because tele lens has slower aperture and you have to raise the ISO or slower shutter speed or both to get a picture = grainy blurry photos.
_mysiak_ said:
2x button should change to optical zoom in very bright light only (sunny outside). If you want to force it, you need to use manual mode. I guess it's because tele lens has slower aperture and you have to raise the ISO or slower shutter speed or both to get a picture = grainy blurry photos.
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There isn't a big change in aperture from the wide lens to the tele lens. I do find that the tele lens is softer than the wide on standard focus. But I am still of the initial belief that the auto focus on my phone is off in lower light and possibly in the tele... I have more testing to do as time permits.
ludditefornow said:
One possible use for it is to assist with checking focus, but other than that I would never use digital zoom.
If someone had a method of linking that 1x option to actually changing to the tele lens, that would be a nice modification.
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You're right but I think no one is actually aware of this I mean even I wasn't until today.
This seems like a reference dual camera setup from OmniVision: http://www.ovt.com/news-events/corporate-releases/omnivision-and-corephotonics-announce-dual-camera-zoom
I think this was the easiest and cheapest solution to add a dual camera setup to a phone since no R&D had to be involved in the build. You can simply buy it and it has ready to go drivers for Android.
This phones works great, battery life is impressive, screen on time is really good (more than 7 hours for me) but the killer feature is the camera, so cheap... I bought this phone because my Galaxy S7 died(almost took fire on USB port) and needed a phone really quick.. but, honestly the camera is crap. I thought it was better camera when I was reading the reviews that afternoon my S7 died... next day I purchased A1 and ... suprise, bad camera was included!
Does anyone knows if using the Google camera api improves the quality?
Socotroco said:
This phones works great, battery life is impressive, screen on time is really good (more than 7 hours for me) but the killer feature is the camera, so cheap... I bought this phone because my Galaxy S7 died(almost took fire on USB port) and needed a phone really quick.. but, honestly the camera is crap. I thought it was better camera when I was reading the reviews that afternoon my S7 died... next day I purchased A1 and ... suprise, bad camera was included!
Does anyone knows if using the Google camera api improves the quality?
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Click to collapse
Yes it does
Socotroco said:
This phones works great, battery life is impressive, screen on time is really good (more than 7 hours for me) but the killer feature is the camera, so cheap... I bought this phone because my Galaxy S7 died(almost took fire on USB port) and needed a phone really quick.. but, honestly the camera is crap. I thought it was better camera when I was reading the reviews that afternoon my S7 died... next day I purchased A1 and ... suprise, bad camera was included!
Does anyone knows if using the Google camera api improves the quality?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They advertised it as flagship dual camera but lol, I wasnt expecting so much from it tho. But yeah, look around in this forum, there are guides to install pixel cam with/without root. And the picture quality imo is 10x better than stock ones (in low lights too!) . Explore buddy, explore! ?
Socotroco said:
I thought it was better camera when I was reading the reviews that afternoon my S7 died... next day I purchased A1 and ... suprise, bad camera was included!
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Click to collapse
Why you buy a phone for like 1/3 of the S7 price in the first place? But yes, the hardware is good, the stock app is the problem, GCam pics have double size compared to stock taken ones.
Wookyx1 said:
Why you buy a phone for like 1/3 of the S7 price in the first place? But yes, the hardware is good, the stock app is the problem, GCam pics have double size compared to stock taken ones.
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Because it was January, S8 were 'old' by then.... and S9 weren't launched yet.... so, in the meantime I decided to buy the cheap phone which everyone was talking about.... end of story, by April I ended up buying a mirrorless camera and taking a photography course online.
I kept the Xiaomi Mi A1, it has been updated OTA every month, latest security patch every month(not like Samsung that takes 6 months for security update and almost a year for Android version upgrade). Other good thing about the 'cheap phone' is that battery lasts whole day and more... it's crazy to remember that with the Galaxy S7 I had to recharge the phone by mid afternoon, now I arrive home by 7pm with 50% battery. On weekends I use the phone a lot more and easily I can get 7 hours of Screen On Time, point for the Xiaomi A1 (the S7 struggled to reach 5 hours).
Socotroco said:
Because it was January, S8 were 'old' by then.... and S9 weren't launched yet.... so, in the meantime I decided to buy the cheap phone which everyone was talking about.... end of story, by April I ended up buying a mirrorless camera and taking a photography course online.
I kept the Xiaomi Mi A1, it has been updated OTA every month, latest security patch every month(not like Samsung that takes 6 months for security update and almost a year for Android version upgrade). Other good thing about the 'cheap phone' is that battery lasts whole day and more... it's crazy to remember that with the Galaxy S7 I had to recharge the phone by mid afternoon, now I arrive home by 7pm with 50% battery. On weekends I use the phone a lot more and easily I can get 7 hours of Screen On Time, point for the Xiaomi A1 (the S7 struggled to reach 5 hours).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
enable google2api. put whatever gcam you like (i have a scrubber version and arnova, but im still checking them out).
not only have AMAZING results with HDR+, i actually can film video with EIS, slowmo WITH sound, blurred selfies, its ...amazing.
i really do not understand why they didnt enable this thing from the begining...
Socotroco said:
This phones works great, battery life is impressive, screen on time is really good (more than 7 hours for me) but the killer feature is the camera, so cheap... I bought this phone because my Galaxy S7 died(almost took fire on USB port) and needed a phone really quick.. but, honestly the camera is crap. I thought it was better camera when I was reading the reviews that afternoon my S7 died... next day I purchased A1 and ... suprise, bad camera was included!
Does anyone knows if using the Google camera api improves the quality?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between stock camera and google camera api is night and day.
So I got my S22 ultra yesterday and overall I am very satisfied with it except the sharpness of the corners from the main camera, my old oneplus 8 pro is so much better at that.
It is very noticeable when shooting RAW photos or 108mp.
Is there anyone else with this kind of issue or maybe I got a defective unit?
Left is oneplus right is the s22.
It's the lense. If more than other copies, it's a bad copy. This happens.
Some corner blurring is typical and acceptable. Blurring near the center especially and as it you go outward are far less acceptable.
Every lense has a blur chart that varies by degrees throughout it's image. Even the best primes have blur; this is an exception lense that goes for over $5G! It's blur chart is near perfect.
blackhawk said:
It's the lense. If more than other copies, it's a bad copy. This happens.
Some corner blurring is typical and acceptable. Blurring near the center especially and as it you go outward are far less acceptable.
Every lense has a blur chart that varies by degrees throughout it's image. Even the best primes have blur; this is an exception lense that goes for over $5G! It's blur chart is near perfect.
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I know its the lens, I want to know if everyone has it to this level or maybe its just my phone.
Look at the difference with the oneplus, I don't think its acceptable.
TheNewLegend said:
I know its the lens, I want to know if everyone has it to this level or maybe its just my phone.
Look at the difference with the oneplus, I don't think its acceptable.
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Click to collapse
You need to compare the same lense/cam model. Go to a store and try a demo or two.
Return it if not satisfied.
blackhawk said:
You need to compare the same lense/cam model. Go to a store and try a demo or two.
Return it if not satisfied.
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Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
TheNewLegend said:
Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
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Remember there's more than one cam... Friends? Never watched it.
TheNewLegend said:
Okay maybe I'll try that. A friend of mine has a s21 ultra, they share the same sensor, maybe I should compare with his phone?
BTW is that the quote of Joey from friends ?
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They might be the same sensor but the S22U has a wider main lens than the S21U. Wide lenses are much more prone to distortion and softer corners. Definitely hoping future models go back to being less wide.
beserker15 said:
They might be the same sensor but the S22U has a wider main lens than the S21U. Wide lenses are much more prone to distortion and softer corners. Definitely hoping future models go back to being less wide.
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For wide angle use the save option to automatically apply correction. This is for primarily image distortion though.
Interesting. My camera app does not have the ultra wide correction option. The other two options are under "picture format". My old Note 20 did have that option.
brachiopod said:
Interesting. My camera app does not have the ultra wide correction option. The other two options are under "picture format". My old Note 20 did have that option.
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Wonder if it just automatically does it now?
That screenshot is from my N10+ running on Pie... meh, I don't like rude surprises
Both photos (on the link on the end) are in 108 mode, 2nd taken seconds after the first, so conditions are the same.
On the 1st photo I have just pressed shutter button and that's it.
On the 2nd button I have taped with finger onto the TV tower on the right to lock focus/exposure and then pressed shutter button.
Results are interesting. As you can see on the 1st photo, trees are detailed and sharp, in focus, while the TV tower is blurry, without details.
But on the 2nd picture, you can see the TV tower (or windows on the buildings) has details, even it is in the corner where sharpness is lower then in the center.
I don't understand this behavior, since there shouldn't be any difference in focus because of the distance from the subjects. In normal 12Mp mode everything is sharp and in focus across the image.
I don't have explanation for this behavior, since the size of the sensor, focal length and distance from the subject shouldn't have any impact on that. It looks something is broken in the image processing pipeline.
Samsung issues - Google Drive
drive.google.com
ssglackey said:
Both photos (on the link on the end) are in 108 mode, 2nd taken seconds after the first, so conditions are the same.
On the 1st photo I have just pressed shutter button and that's it.
On the 2nd button I have taped with finger onto the TV tower on the right to lock focus/exposure and then pressed shutter button.
Results are interesting. As you can see on the 1st photo, trees are detailed and sharp, in focus, while the TV tower is blurry, without details.
But on the 2nd picture, you can see the TV tower (or windows on the buildings) has details, even it is in the corner where sharpness is lower then in the center.
I don't understand this behavior, since there shouldn't be any difference in focus because of the distance from the subjects. In normal 12Mp mode everything is sharp and in focus across the image.
I don't have explanation for this behavior, since the size of the sensor, focal length and distance from the subject shouldn't have any impact on that. It looks something is broken in the image processing pipeline.
Samsung issues - Google Drive
drive.google.com
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the samples, I tried to focus on the corners too and some how it got sharper however the center of the image got worse even though everything should be in focus.
In 12mp mode it just boost the sharpness with processing. that's why everything is sharp.
TheNewLegend said:
Thanks for the samples, I tried to focus on the corners too and some how it got sharper however the center of the image got worse even though everything should be in focus.
In 12mp mode it just boost the sharpness with processing. that's why everything is sharp.
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Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
ssglackey said:
Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
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I already did that too
TheNewLegend said:
I already did that too
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I have the Exynos version, wondering if it is also affecting SD...
ssglackey said:
I have the Exynos version, wondering if it is also affecting SD...
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Mine is sd so it is..
ssglackey said:
Yes, you can have sharp center or the corners, but not both. But why?
I don't think in 12mp mode it is just boosting the sharpness, if it is out of focus, it can't be fixed by sharpening.
It may help if you submit a bug report directly from the phone via the member app as I did (still waiting for reply from Samsung) - more reports, more attention.
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Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
blackhawk said:
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
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But in the standard 12Mpix mode everything far enough is sharp and in focus, using the same lens, only in 108Mpix mode you see this issue. Your statement is valid, but with tiny sensors in smartphones all distant object must be equally in focus. I can't achieve such blur for distant object with Full frame mirrorless (35mm f1.8) and that is another league.
TheNewLegend said:
So I got my S22 ultra yesterday and overall I am very satisfied with it except the sharpness of the corners from the main camera, my old oneplus 8 pro is so much better at that.
It is very noticeable when shooting RAW photos or 108mp.
Is there anyone else with this kind of issue or maybe I got a defective unit?
Left is oneplus right is the s22.
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The shaky shot in S22 and steady shot in Oneplus, clean the lens and try without shaking the device, or maybe as you said it could be a defective phone!
After a comparison with s21 ultra there was a slight difference in sharpness, however I don't know why but the colors were much better with the s21.
I'll compare them again later.
blackhawk said:
Because of the blur pattern and dof.
All lens have it and you can't have all points in focus at once especially with a fast lense. They always have a shallow depth of field. Even stopped down only objects at the same distance can be perfectly focus and there's always some blur even than.
You can't stop down these smartphone cams, one of their limitations; you're stuck with a wide open lense.
Multi element (typically 7 elements or greater) lens can correct for it to a greater extent but you see the blur chart example I posted. That's one of the best primes available, all $6G's of that beast.
It's not just the blur pattern that the optic engineers need to address. Different colors have different wavelengths so they want to focus at different lengths. There are many tradeoffs. With only a small number of elements in a very small space the options are limited. Price is another consideration.
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Just like glackey said, even with my FF camera both of the subjects will be in focus, I don't think that DOF is the issue here.
steveroysston said:
The shaky shot in S22 and steady shot in Oneplus, clean the lens and try without shaking the device, or maybe as you said it could be a defective phone!
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Both of the phones were steady and the lens was clean.
hi GPpro7 users,
I would love to have your answers as users about this :
I have had two old Samsungs (A5 and S8), and they have "old" 12mp cameras...and I have been thinking that nowadays, that's 5 years later, cameras had gotten amazing and I would buy myself one of those, reading about your device the pixel pro 7, about the iPhone, the xiaomi mi11 ultra, the honour magic 4 ultimate, the S22 ultra, the iPhone 14 etc...
I went mad when I read about affordable 48mp, even 64mp and 108 mp cameras that are affordable...and completely puzzled when I read the reviews. Only to end up comparing my own shots to the sample images I could find online, understanding that to my knowledge those cameras produce plain 12mp at all, and any attempt to enlarge them to the claimed say 64 or 108mp size will just give me an unusable image with atrocious quality, whatever the phone.
Then I found about this tool that lets you compare cameras for real after I had read the complete commercial nonsense fuelled reviews online:
Camera comparison tool
see for yourselves how supposedly camera of the year doesn't look 1200€ less cheap than my S8...it is just amazing...no phone really beats others, even old phones...it's all low-quality 12Mp jpegs, that's about not an even decent 8mp jpeg...
And I wanted to buy one because I photoshop for a living, and last camera I had was around 2005, it produced good 8mp raw images, so I could make them great quality material for photo-montages, and therefore produce prints that'd be larger than A4.
It seems I wouldn't even be able to do that with nowadays top-level smartphones that claim they offer 108Mp...and I'm asking because the online info, or basic science, about it online is just misleading.
Please, I would love your own feeling-experience with your device that is supposed to bear awesome 50mp cameras, rather than trust anything that was posted online from reviews to camera samples that could be anything. When they say 50mp, the quality of raw files is the one of average enlarged 8-12mp compressed jpegs, or not ?
Thank you
You get way better pictures on newer phones.
The only time you might see similar results are with perfect lighting.
Thats it.
The sensors are better.
Its one of the few things that actually evolve on phones.
I've had Xiaomi phones with 'AMAZING MEGAPIXELS'.
Its never amazing.
In low light they are so bad compared to flagships from Sony, Samsung and Google.
thank you you summed it up, I couldn't find any info anywhere behind the advertising techniques, I wonder if I can get pro quality , that's actual 50mp fine results, for using it professionally, so I'll be waiting for further replies.
Everything they advertise looks like nothing but better looking -less noisy and all - 12mp jpegs at all, plus good zooming abilities in a few cases, but not as the name suggests, high end pro cameras at all.
I take photos for work on fabrics and carpets. I need an excellent camera phone that takes photos with colors as similar to real colors as possible.
What is the best android phone for my needs?
fashion_live said:
I take photos for work on fabrics and carpets. I need an excellent camera phone that takes photos with colors as similar to real colors as possible.
What is the best android phone for my needs?
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None, get yourself a DSLR or a mirrorless camera if you need "accurate" colors. All of the phones have their own way of post-processing the photos and almost none of them result in accurate colors.
Nath_h57 said:
thank you you summed it up, I couldn't find any info anywhere behind the advertising techniques, I wonder if I can get pro quality , that's actual 50mp fine results, for using it professionally, so I'll be waiting for further replies.
Everything they advertise looks like nothing but better looking -less noisy and all - 12mp jpegs at all, plus good zooming abilities in a few cases, but not as the name suggests, high end pro cameras at all.
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If you're talking about RAW, not none of the OEMs offer non-binned images in RAW. You always get the binned output even when shooting RAW photos.
ekin_strops said:
If you're talking about RAW, not none of the OEMs offer non-binned images in RAW. You always get the binned output even when shooting RAW photos.
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thank you, yes from the advertisement or product description, one hopes for a say 108 mp good quality camera, that will offer you PLENTY of sharp details in every photograph, like...can zoom anywhere and get a new A4 to exploit. And I'm very disappointed...
ekin_strops said:
None, get yourself a DSLR or a mirrorless camera if you need "accurate" colors. All of the phones have their own way of post-processing the photos and almost none of them result in accurate colors.
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Thanks but I know. My question is about camera phones
There are some really good YT Vids comparing phone cameras.
Marques Brownlee did a few really involved comparisons of various modes and features of the newest phones. The Pixel Devices, 6 Pro, 6A and 7 Pro were the top picks
fashion_live said:
Thanks but I know. My question is about camera phones
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check the comparison tool link I posted in the first post. Recent Xiaomi phones seem interesting regarding colour fidelity.
but anyway it relies on the ambient light as you shoot too , an app like Color Grabber may help
HipKat said:
There are some really good YT Vids comparing phone cameras.
Marques Brownlee did a few really involved comparisons of various modes and features of the newest phones. The Pixel Devices, 6 Pro, 6A and 7 Pro were the top picks
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I dont need best camera phone, i need best camera phone with realistic and natural colors
fashion_live said:
I dont need best camera phone, i need best camera phone with realistic and natural colors
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I get that, but this is a phone first, not a camera and you're not going to get everything you would with an actual camera, at least at this point, although Phone cameras have come a long, long way.
I think people need to be reminded this is a communications device, primarily.
The point of the videos is that those things are taken into consideration in the comparisons.
The sensor is 48 MP, but it blends groups of 4 pixels together resulting in a 12 MP image. You can't blow the image up and recover those additional pixels.
96carboard said:
The sensor is 48 MP, but it blends groups of 4 pixels together resulting in a 12 MP image. You can't blow the image up and recover those additional pixels.
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50mp binned to 12.5mp on the primary
Thank you very much because everything online is VERY misleading, regarding 500 - 1500 euros investments.
I am flabbergasted because the ads and product descriptions pretend it's 50mp or more pro cameras, and they happen to be plain okay (not even but...) 12mp digicams. Nothing worth spending 1500 euros it seems. I just expected I could invest like 800 and get a pro camera too that would just let me shoot a photo, get awesome 50mp quality, zoom on the raw file and get another A4 size good cropped shot etc...on top of the disappointment, the misleading info and product description is truly disgusting
MrBelter said:
50mp binned to 12.5mp on the primary
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Is the pixel binning process performed by hardware or software? Is it theoretically possible to have the option of full-resolution images as a future software update?
tiagobt said:
Is the pixel binning process performed by hardware or software? Is it theoretically possible to have the option of full-resolution images as a future software update?
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The same sensor does produce 50mp images on other phones so presumably it is handled by software, personally I don't think Google will allow it.
It's definitely a software thing as my OnePlus 9's stock camera software does enable you to disable the pixel binning and take a full 50MP photo. The results are pretty terrible though because OnePlus' camera just leaves a lot to be desired.
Yes ! it's all about that, and about the availability of non-binned therefore 48mp or more images online for comparison, it took me ages to find only one of those from a Xiaomi 12s phone, so the actual quality of the camera is actually visible !!! (and not that great !) although the Xiaomi 12t pro and maybe 12s ultra are the best ones I've found so far.
The thing is they show 12mp shots shrunk to our phones' dimensions, or as a shrunk jpeg so that looks good, but that's nothing like the actual camera"s quality that only gets visible on those original non-binned shots, that's a pic that's about an iMac's screen size and it seems very little progress has occurred in five years, the best cam gives okay to good enough results in daylight but that goes with manual retouching. Unless someone proves me wrong...
Personally i don't see what the fuss is about, 12.5mp is more than adequate for printing even at A3 and as they say the best camera is the one you have in your hand, the megapixel myth seems alive and well.
My first DSLR was only 8MP and i did plenty of (paid) weddings and air shows with that.
I don't understand why new phones have a lot of cameras and only one camera have a lot of mpx other have 8mpx or less, is it so hard to make 1 better camera than fill whole back of the phone? Also cameras stick out on new phones so is easier to break it. I think is better to make just one camera with e.g 48mpx than 3 more. Also in my opinion professional camera should be to making photos than normal smartphone.
masturbino69 said:
I don't understand why new phones have a lot of cameras and only one camera have a lot of mpx other have 8mpx or less, is it so hard to make 1 better camera than fill whole back of the phone? Also cameras stick out on new phones so is easier to break it. I think is better to make just one camera with e.g 48mpx and 3 more. Also in my opinion professional camera should be to making photos than normal smartphone.
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Welcome to XDA.
Multiple cams because there's inadequate space for a optical zoom lense.
It's just marketing thing. 3 cameras are "better" than one good main camera.
All these 8MP ultrawide cameras and 2MP macro cameras are pretty much trash.
Dayuser said:
It's just marketing thing. 3 cameras are "better" than one good main camera.
All these 8MP ultrawide cameras and 2MP macro cameras are pretty much trash.
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My 12mp ultra wide does ok even with the fixed focus. When you can't pan back ultra wides are your only option.
My biggest complaint is that the cameras aren't well protected. A sapphire lens cover would be fairly scratch resistant, but would probably add a bit to the cost.
DonutsAreGood said:
My biggest complaint is that the cameras aren't well protected. A sapphire lens cover would be fairly scratch resistant, but would probably add a bit to the cost.
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A good case is all that's needed. I live in the desert (sand and grit everywhere) and this N10+ is 3.5 yo has zero scratches or mars on the factory cam protector.
Case it, keep your fingers off the cam protector and clean with a dry microfiber cloth occasionally. No fuss or bother.
They are generally cheap and easy to replace if damaged.
blackhawk said:
My 12mp ultra wide does ok even with the fixed focus. When you can't pan back ultra wides are your only option.
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Your phone ultrawide is 16MP.. As i remember right that you still have Galaxy Note 10?
Dayuser said:
Your phone ultrawide is 16MP.. As i remember right that you still have Galaxy Note 10?
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My bad, yeah 16mp. After the N10+ Samsung went nuts with the cams. The N20U ie the humpback. Then then the bs highest mp count race was on.
@masturbino69
With regards to thread's title: I think this article
Why Do Some Smartphones Use Multiple Cameras?
Lots of high-end smartphones have added multiple camera modules and lenses to the back of their designs. But why? The fact is that they do different things for different phones, so we’re here to break it all down for you.
www.howtogeek.com
explains it well