Database Info

Gps broken forever? Hardware or software.

I really need to know because I drive an ambulance for a living is the GPS actually fixable? I love the phone but hate the GPS that locks up and is inaccurate, or just doesnt lock on.The tweaks I've tired. No luck. I called Samsung and asked and they have no clue and think the Sept patch worked. I think its a cover up and the first run is just plain defective. What's the probability its hardware and not fixable.
Thanks Travis

Call att and get it replaced. I got a replacement phone and so far the GPS has worked when I needed it. It locks pretty quickly most of the time. Sometimes it takes 20 to 30 seconds but always locks reguardless
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I'm pretty certain it is a hardware problem and Samsung is trying very hard to see if they can fix it, or 'optimize' it, in software to avoid a mass recall of millions of these phones.

Smallsmx - a quick lock is very different from reliable navigation. Driving around using Google Nav as well as analyzing using something like MyTracks is the way to go to see if the GPS is actually accurate.
Here's a track I just created with MyTracks. If you zoom in, you can see that the track jumps between the north-bound & south-bound lanes of the highway several times, as well as veers off of the road several times. These may seem insignificant, but they're the kind of things that play havoc with navigation software (constant re-routing, etc). Also note that I'm in a rural area; i.e. no interference from tall buildings to blame this on...

I'm pretty convinced it is a hardware problem.. I've been through 4 Captivates, and only 1 has worked. The Captivate that has the working GPS works on all ROMs, but works best after JH7 (or the froyo builds). The other 3 Captivates, the GPS doesn't work anywhere.
I wouldn't want to trust my life to the Captivate's GPS navigation! If I found out my ambulance was being navigated by a Captivate, I'd wait for the next one

tblindt said:
I really need to know because I drive an ambulance for a living is the GPS actually fixable? I love the phone but hate the GPS that locks up and is inaccurate, or just doesnt lock on.The tweaks I've tired. No luck. I called Samsung and asked and they have no clue and think the Sept patch worked. I think its a cover up and the first run is just plain defective. What's the probability its hardware and not fixable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please don't use the C(r)appy GPS for anything like that! It's just not up to it! Even if the GPS does work from time to time, you'll spend too much time second guessing it. Get a dedicated GPS that you KNOW works so you can concentrate on doing the important stuff like not hitting other cars and saving lives!
foxbat121 said:
I'm pretty certain it is a hardware problem and Samsung is trying very hard to see if they can fix it, or 'optimize' it, in software to avoid a mass recall of millions of these phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed 100%. If it was a simple software bug, it would have been fixed in JH7. They initially claimed JH7 fixed it... And then they contradicted themselves and said there was no GPS fix in JH7.
So Sammy is confusing us with smoke and mirrors and hoping they can still circumvent what is likely to be a recall only fix. Imagine the impact of a recall. Cost would be huge. PR would be a nightmare. Impact on future Galaxy S sales would be massive. See how cleverly and deviously Apple avoided an iPhone 4 recall with what was clearly a major hardware defect.
And for those of you that say your Cappy's GPS works perfectly, there is one of two conditions that apply:
1. You got a lock while stationary from > x satellites and assume from that alone that GPS works. A better criteria would be GPS tracking while driving in an urban environment with accuracy < 5m.
OR
2. The hardware defect is an intermittent assembly or fabrication issue that shows up in the majority but not all handsets.
So here's to hoping I am wrong and the official Froyo build is being held up while they correct the GPS problem once and for all. If not, here's to class action. In the meantime, Sammy and AT&T product managers, if you are reading this (doubtful) give us the source for 2.2 (kernel, hardware drivers and all) and let the XDA community have a crack at fixing it (and enable HSUPA, FM radio, native etx4, etc while their at it).

Before i flashed to the JPM and the reorinted 2.1 my gps would not get a lock after 10 mins after I flashed to the i9000 rom and shanged the gps settings to ms based I get a lock after 15-25 sec at 15m. its software related and att's reps are just dumb as dog **** and full of it too

tjsooley said:
Before i flashed to the JPM and the reorinted 2.1 my gps would not get a lock after 10 mins after I flashed to the i9000 rom and shanged the gps settings to ms based I get a lock after 15-25 sec at 15m. its software related and att's reps are just dumb as dog **** and full of it too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Share a GPS track with us then.....

Tonite I will take screen shots of my gps settings and post them

tjsooley said:
Tonite I will take screen shots of my gps settings and post them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need. We have millions of threads for just that. We need the evidence that you actually use it for navigation while driving. That's where it all falls apart (for majority of the Captivate anyway).
I can get a lock no problem as well with no tweeks in settings. But that doesn't mean the GPS is anywhere near usable.

foxbat121 said:
No need. We have millions of threads for just that. We need the evidence that you actually use it for navigation while driving. That's where it all falls apart (for majority of the Captivate anyway).
I can get a lock no problem as well with no tweeks in settings. But that doesn't mean the GPS is anywhere near usable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Misread the forum. I have not used it for a gps on the road for navigation yet.
I have watched it on the way home from work and it was prittyy accurate.
funny thing.
I dont get a lock from my cup holder but i get a lock no problem and the gps works on the dash board.
maby
if it is any differance all the sgs varriants are having a bunch of gps issues.
and there are people that have had no problems.

ianwood said:
Agreed 100%. If it was a simple software bug, it would have been fixed in JH7. They initially claimed JH7 fixed it... And then they contradicted themselves and said there was no GPS fix in JH7.
So Sammy is confusing us with smoke and mirrors and hoping they can still circumvent what is likely to be a recall only fix. Imagine the impact of a recall. Cost would be huge. PR would be a nightmare. Impact on future Galaxy S sales would be massive. See how cleverly and deviously Apple avoided an iPhone 4 recall with what was clearly a major hardware defect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure the loss of future sales will cost Samsung more than a recall. My last 3 phones were Samsung and I sure as hell know if they don't fix the GPS issue, whether it be through firmware or a recall, Samsung will never see another dime from me ever again and I'm sure there's plenty of others feeling the same way.
There would probably also be about no PR. Samsung is no Apple. The media and general public really don't give a damn about them. The issue is not so controversial that the news will pick up on it, like the Toyota recalls. At most there would be a couple sentences on the news about it that most people will just ignore because they don't have the phone. Apple got worse PR by ignoring the issue than if they simply would have addressed it with a recall. They got away with it because they're Apple. 90% of the population worships them.

I was just thinking the same thing. My GPS does not work.
I don't understand people who think it's no big deal. It's a major feature and an Advertised feature...not some hack.
I would not have bought the device without GPS. What if you bought a new car that said it had air conditioning...but after you bought it...you realized it didn't work....no big deal or recall?
CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

yea its a cover up
My whole plan and philosophy was that hey Google maps is great and so is Linux so this should, be better than those goofy slow interfaced GPS units.... which always give you the wrong location....
Anyhow I ordered one more..to see if its a dud too.
1ST SAMSUNG AND MY LAST YOU HEAR THAT SAMSUNK.. BTW your customer service is so poor girl who knows nothing about phones and thought the update was "real".

Jupiter fix w/vibrant ROM. Seems like I tried everything. Plenty of sats and locks while stationary. Can't get this thing to maintain lock or be accurate while moving in navigation for the life of me.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

I'm hoping for a software fix, but I'm doubtful that we'll ever see one. This is the same GPS chip as used in at least one blackberry where it has no problem. Combine that with the fact that there's 5 different Galaxy S phones that have these issues, each with slightly different layouts of where the chips are on the board, it's more likely a software issue.
If it is a hardware issue, or if it's a software issue that they never get around to fixing, I could see a very nasty class action lawsuit pop up. Personally, I hate class action lawsuits, as the only people who usually benefit from them are the lawyers, but one can always hope for the best.
One interesting thing I did notice was that when in my vehicle (a Jeep Wrangler with a fiberglass hardtop) or on my motorcycle, the tracks are just about spot on... as long as there aren't any tall buildings right next to me. It stops when I stop, it turns when I turn... You know, pretty much what you expect out of a GPS.
On the other hand, when I'm in a friends vehicle (metal roof, no sunroof), my position wanders all over the place. We stop, but the icon keeps on going. We turn, it doesn't. And, of course, there's always fun times when it thinks your a block or two over from where you are. Oh, and can't forget the lag... sometimes it's as much as 5 seconds behind me.
That makes me suspect the filters Samsung has in place for when the signal is weak. Either that, or the antenna design they use might win the distinction of being the most craptastic one of the decade. Hell, maybe both might be the case.

This whole thing with the GPS has me baffled..after reading a bunch of threads...posts..and personal experience, I believe the problem with the Captivate's GPS is the delay in getting a lock. Once it's locked, the accuracy is excellent. Maybe the agps is not functioning properly...these devices really need agps to get a rapid lock. Is the supl server that is built into the device reliable? I believe this is the crux. Anybody having any inaccuracies is the exception to the rule once the device is locked. But a 3-4 minute lock time is fairly unacceptable

Same results as others. If I have the captivate high up in the windshield so it has a larger uninterrupted view of the sky, it will track almost as well as my Blackberry sitting on the center console. Seems the captivate is not nearly as sensitive as other GPS devices.
As for PR, a recall would not be in your nightly news but it would be all over the trade news. The Galaxy S brand has been in the trade news almost daily for the past few months. A recall would put a serious dent in all that positive momentum. That would have a serious effect on future deals with carriers, retailers, etc. Not to mention investors. And finally disaffected consumers.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

Mine works with no view of the sky
My GPS is working good after COG Froyo version6. This track is from a mountain bike ride, phone was inside my camelback.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...16556845834261.00049360088f52c5ed399&t=h&z=16

nice looking track.. is your navigation app good too???
itsjustaphone said:
My GPS is working good after COG Froyo version6. This track is from a mountain bike ride, phone was inside my camelback.
[/url]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Questions for ya if ya don't mind.
1. Did you have problems before with same phone?
2. Phone new or refurbished?
3. When was it made give or take? (maybe import in terms of factory runs???)
Hmm thats it far as identifying maybe some know how to timestamp/get ingo from imei or serial.
I'll post a track from mine in a little bit I Think that would be a great idea for this thread.. POST YOUR TRACKS RESULTS AND BASIC SPECS.
Believe program is called "mytracks"

A working way to get a GPS lock

Well... As we all know, gps is **** on our captivates. That being said, i found a way to get a gps lock, and almost all the time..
However the method isnt as simple as opening up Gmaps and pressing my location.
I have only tried this with Apex 8.2
To do this.. you have to enter AngryGPS (*#3214789650#*)
Then go to tracking test... Wait for it to present values of your latitude and longitude.
Once these values are there... press maps, and voila

Uhhh seems like the code is for lbstest. Well if so... By using a test feature all you are really doing is turning your gps on(all the time). Which will basically always give you quick lock because the gps is always on unless you kill all your apps or re-open lbstest and back out. Not really a fix, more of a drain on your battery. Only true fix for older models of this phone is to get a refurb'd from atnt/rogers in your case. (not samsung).

Once opened, Angry gps looks just like lbstest. For some reason it was renamed.

Just need to figure out a way to do this with Tasker.

Ah, in that case.. cant you just program tasker to only turn gps on when you open maps or a navigation app?
kimocal said:
Just need to figure out a way to do this with Tasker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but how do you program tasker to open up lbstestmode... then run the tracking test... wait about 10 seconds... then open up maps?

So let me see if I get this straight. You start GPS, wait till it gets a lock and then open maps and you have a lock?
that's what we used to do on Eclair.
NascarFastcar is right, the only real way to have a working GPS is to get a refurbished unit. Most of us early adopters are going past our 1 year mark, so if you haven't, get one quick!

I still have a couple months in my warranty left. What problem would I go to them with?

The GPS is fixed on a refurb?

supaphreek said:
I still have a couple months in my warranty left. What problem would I go to them with?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tell them the gps dosent work. That's all. They will most likely try to get a lock indoors lol and then they will just give you a refurbed. They like to use google maps. I tried to show them gps test etc and they tried to blame my gps not working via a 3rd party app.
ifederov said:
The GPS is fixed on a refurb?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well since april 2011. All refurbs seem to have been fixed. Still have to watch out for older modeled refurbs that still might have random shutdowns. I know had about 6 refurbs with shutdowns after a week or two. But they all had great gps.

NascarFastcar said:
Tell them the gps dosent work. That's all. They will most likely try to get a lock indoors lol and then they will just give you a refurbed. They like to use google maps. I tried to show them gps test etc and they tried to blame my gps not working via a 3rd party app.
Well since april 2011. All refurbs seem to have been fixed. Still have to watch out for older modeled refurbs that still might have random shutdowns. I know had about 6 refurbs with shutdowns after a week or two. But they all had great gps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay... but im currently running apex 8.2.. So i cant go to them with a rooted and rommed phone. Do i downgrade to a 2.2 stock rogers rom?

NascarFastcar said:
Well since april 2011. All refurbs seem to have been fixed. Still have to watch out for older modeled refurbs that still might have random shutdowns. I know had about 6 refurbs with shutdowns after a week or two. But they all had great gps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree that the gps is fixed. I just got a refurb about 6 weeks ago. The gps worked awesome for a few weeks. It now sucks eggs - actually worse than my last phone. Totally stock, just like my previous phone. I don't know the build number because it has a weird refurb sticker that doesn't have a build number on it.
-Rich

Take it back and get another one until they give you one that works.

cappysw10 said:
Take it back and get another one until they give you one that works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've learned how to use it. I know others have tried, but here are the ONLY real instructions that work:
1) You have to always look 2 steps ahead of what it says when using Google Maps on a Captivate because you never know when all of a sudden it will think you're on a different street and start giving you directions on how to get back on the correct path.
2) When she it starts telling you how to correct yourself (when you're actually already on the right path) learn how to IGNORE it or it will confuse you
3) It's ok for occasional use, but always and I mean ALWAYS have a real GPS handy in the glove compartment for the occasions when your Captivate decides that it isn't in the mood to lock onto any statellites even when it sees 7 or 8 with a with strong signals
4) Always have a real GPS handy when your Captivate can't locate ANY satellites.
5) When in Maine or rural New Hampshire don't even think about using your Captivate!!!
6) Overlook it's GPS defects because it's so awesome in every other way.
Does this post earn a sticky? We should coin a pharse that encompasses all of the above (you know your Captivate has trained you in a similar manor).

richb500 said:
I've learned how to use it. I know others have tried, but here are the ONLY real instructions that work:
1) You have to always look 2 steps ahead of what it says when using Google Maps on a Captivate because you never know when all of a sudden it will think you're on a different street and start giving you directions on how to get back on the correct path.
2) When she it starts telling you how to correct yourself (when you're actually already on the right path) learn how to IGNORE it or it will confuse you
3) It's ok for occasional use, but always and I mean ALWAYS have a real GPS handy in the glove compartment for the occasions when your Captivate decides that it isn't in the mood to lock onto any statellites even when it sees 7 or 8 with a with strong signals
4) Always have a real GPS handy when your Captivate can't locate ANY satellites.
5) When in Maine or rural New Hampshire don't even think about using your Captivate!!!
6) Overlook it's GPS defects because it's so awesome in every other way.
Does this post earn a sticky? We should coin a pharse that encompasses all of the above (you know your Captivate has trained you in a similar manor).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah but you see, i dont drive. Well i do... but i dont have a car. So public transport is what i use and luckily, google maps supports it. Basically all i need is a position lock, rather than finding my house, tracking down whatever streets i used to get to wherever i am, then selecting that as a point...

I returned my 1008 Captivate because of random shutdowns last week and received a 1007 refurb and the GPS was perfect on 2.2.1 and continues to be perfect on Apex 8.2. Also, no random shutdowns.

Exchanged a 1007 Captivate in My, got a 1010 refurb. GPS is about 98% as good as my Garmin GPS in one car. In the other, there must be some kind of interference scit doesn't keep a good signal in the location I put it navigate.
I find it fun to see the difference in the routes they provide.
The 1010 model can also track me walking on the sidewalk. I was watching Google Earth zoomed in as far as it would go.

+1 on returning the phone to an AT&T device service center. I went several weeks back and tested my phone when I got home and it was worse. Went back the next day, the girl there first turned on the "use mobile network" option and told me the gps was now working. I got a little aggrevated but politely pressed on, she then told me the samsung captivate has no gps in it, this sparked my asshole lawyer mode. After making the girl feel embarrased in front of her coworkers for insulting my intelligence I demanded a different rep work with me. I had him go thru 7 phones before getting one that had a working gps. After the 2nd, they told me I would have to call customer service, I laughed and told them that this is a customer service center and my contract entitles me to burn through every single unit they have until they fix my device issue. After the 6th the guy finally paid attention to what I was telling them about looking at the build number (because they have to send all those phones back to samsung). I now have an 1101 that has been working great for about a month. If it screws up again I will go ruin their day again.

can government really listen in on phones, even while off?

watching CBS's new fall lineup this evening, and saw them mention listening in on cellphones even while theyre turned off. its not anything new, weve been seeing it in movies for years, where the government agencies listens in, or at least mentions their ability to listen in through cellphones when theyre turned off. eagle eye is one, and hostage (new show on cbs) mentioned it again tonight, which got me thinking if its realistically possible.
on the one hand, with android being as open source as it is, and millions upon millions of developers taking it apart, porting, and constantly rebuilding it from scratch, how could there possibly be a feature to not only listen in completely unnoticed, but do it while the phone is off?!
yet carrier iq actually happened.. and i would have never thought it could implemented without being spotted immediately.
soo, thoughts?

soraxd said:
watching CBS's new fall lineup this evening, and saw them mention listening in on cellphones even while theyre turned off. its not anything new, weve been seeing it in movies for years, where the government agencies listens in, or at least mentions their ability to listen in through cellphones when theyre turned off. eagle eye is one, and hostage (new show on cbs) mentioned it again tonight, which got me thinking if its realistically possible.
on the one hand, with android being as open source as it is, and millions upon millions of developers taking it apart, porting, and constantly rebuilding it from scratch, how could there possibly be a feature to not only listen in completely unnoticed, but do it while the phone is off?!
yet carrier iq actually happened.. and i would have never thought it could implemented without being spotted immediately.
soo, thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this would be possible by turning them on remotely over a network. similar to waking a PC on LAN.
similar to
Wake on LAN is technology that allows someone to turn on a network computer remotely by sending a special data packet (called a Magic Packet). Even if the computer is turned off, the network adapter is still "listening" on the network, so when the special packet arrives, the network adapter can turn on the computer.
Wake on LAN is mainly used by system administrators to perform computer maintenance tasks remotely. The computer receiving the Magic Packet must have a motherboard, network adapter, adapter driver, and computer basic input/output system (BIOS) that work with Wake on LAN.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.​

When the computer is 'off' it is not really 'off' there is still power on the computer. I doubt whether a phone is still 'listening' to a GSM or 3G/4G network while OFF. Wouldn't you notice a huge drain the next time you start your phone? I think it is not as simple as with a regular desktop pc.
Edit: A simple google search gives me nothing on waking up my phone by GSM/3G/4G/WLAN.
Anyone else ?

Robin>Hood said:
When the computer is 'off' it is not really 'off' there is still power on the computer. I doubt whether a phone is still 'listening' to a GSM or 3G/4G network while OFF. Wouldn't you notice a huge drain the next time you start your phone? I think it is not as simple as with a regular desktop pc.
Edit: A simple google search gives me nothing on waking up my phone by GSM/3G/4G/WLAN.
Anyone else ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, its not the same as a PC, but it does have a power source to maintain its date and time and what not's may or may not be embedded in its chips, just to get an idea about chips, read this
Hence it can be not only a software issue but can also be a hardware issue.
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.​

That is interesting, I knew some of that but never really digged into it. Do you know anybody has tried to locate the chip, I mean on the software side, so a it could be like, disabled software side, so it wouldnbt be of any use?
Also I'm downloading the documentary is just finished downloading :good: Thank you for sharing that with the world Sir.

Robin>Hood said:
That is interesting, I knew some of that but never really digged into it. Do you know anybody has tried to locate the chip, I mean on the software side, so a it could be like, disabled software side, so it wouldnbt be of any use?
Also I'm downloading the documentary is just finished downloading :good: Thank you for sharing that with the world Sir.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off hand such info would be difficult to obtain, and most likely not available to most. In addition Chip manufacturers can be compelled to "implant" certain things into their chips that even phone manufacturers will not be aware of by relevant concerns, so its pretty much a dark area for end users. Than comes software , which also can be incorporated with the requirements of agencies that have interest for such requirements,
end of the day, just to give you an idea on software just saw a post made today let me quote http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=46060254&postcount=78
silentvisitor said:
Profiling or citizen database in any way is/can be dangerous. Nobody can guarantee future.
Lets have a look at what all information does Google have about YOU through your Android phone :
YOUR NAME
01. Your picture
02. Your complete Contact list with pictures, e-mail ids, phone numbers, birthdays, etc.
03. Whom you met or gonna meet (Calendar) (Btw, there were digital and much powerful calendars way before Google Calendar e.g BlackBerry)
04. With whom you talked, when and how long (Call log) (Read Privacy Policy \ Log information )
05. Your family and other images (Picasa web albums) (Google+ auto-upload)
06. Your WiFi passwords (device backup)
07. Where you are located or went (location)
08. Which sites you visited (Android browser google login)
09. Which device/s you own.
10. Your files (Google drive) (no encryption) (Also Gmail attachments)
11. What you searched (Google search and Now)
12. Your pic (Chrome has Camera permissions) (everything can be used in two ways)
13. Your daily route (Google Now)
14. What you talked with someone through chat (GTalk) (its their servers, right)
15. Finally, your emails and its contents. Read this (I believe we will see many such things in near future as awareness increases)
Ever heard about NSA or PRISM
There is much more to it than meets the eye or this list.
Today, Google and Facebook (primarily Google) knows more about you than your own parents or spouse and that's frightening. If not today then tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.​

Yes I know, but at least I made a choice in this, giving them my information, if I wanted to I could use a nokia 3310 or something similar. But I'm a online junkie I guess.
Maybe it doesn't matter that much in a year or 1, 2 maybe 3 lol:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/14/us-japan-fukushima-insight-idUSBRE97D00M20130814

I can see a GPS transceiver in the phone potentially working while the phone is off to give information on where the phone is (like a tracking bug or whatever), but I don't think they'd be able to listen in while the phone is off. Similar to what others have said, regarding WOL packets etc... phone would have to be on and connected to a cell tower to transmit the audio data....
If you're really worried, take out the battery Though even then, maybe they have some sort of super capacitor kinetic battery that will auto-charge with motion.... oh the conspiracy theory continues!

Even if the government could listen to your calls why should it matter? Unless you are doing something wrong it should matter right? Maybe it's just me that would rather them listen in and potentially prevent an attack by doing so. Just me I guess. So how about that Galaxy Note 3... Nice piece of work there.
Sent from the Galaxy Ssssss 4 . If I was able to assist please Thank me so I know.

drumst1x said:
I can see a GPS transceiver in the phone potentially working while the phone is off to give information on where the phone is (like a tracking bug or whatever), but I don't think they'd be able to listen in while the phone is off. Similar to what others have said, regarding WOL packets etc... phone would have to be on and connected to a cell tower to transmit the audio data....
If you're really worried, take out the battery Though even then, maybe they have some sort of super capacitor kinetic battery that will auto-charge with motion.... oh the conspiracy theory continues!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, :laugh: All phones have an internal lithium-ion battery to maintain the date and time so to speak, maybe its time to look inside your phone or just download a technical manual to know better . There is nothing magical or conspiratorial about it actually, since you a transferring music, video, images & power (heard of wireless charging?), over the Air. Activating a phone or just its modem must be impossible?
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.​

xsenman said:
LOL, :laugh: All phones have an internal lithium-ion battery to maintain the date and time so to speak, maybe its time to look inside your phone or just download a technical manual to know better . There is nothing magical or conspiratorial about it actually, since you a transferring music, video, images & power (heard of wireless charging?), over the Air. Activating a phone or just its modem must be impossible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dang, quoting you was difficult, having to strip out all that signature stuff!
I know that there's a Li-Ion in there, but those batteries are used to keep a timeclock alive. I don't know THAT much about batteries, but we have these massive batteries in our phones that tremendously increase our phones' weight just so we can have 4-6 hrs of "moderate use".... I would tend to think (again, i'm not an expert on the subject, just giving my 2 cents) that the tiny lithium ion battery wouldn't even be enough to power the radio and the mic, much less an operating system or hardware encoding device. Even if it could, it wouldn't be able to transfer all that much for that long, right? Sure, you could say it can grab the charge from the main battery etc, but couldn't we easily enough find out if there is any kind of electromagnetic signature or radio wave coming out of the devices when off? I'm sure someone out there in the interwebs has a device that can tell us this (a la Ghost Hunters or something?).
Regardless, we're all being tracked all the time. That's just the state of things. Wish it weren't, and wish there were somethign we could do about it, but not realy sure what options exist.

drumst1x said:
Dang, quoting you was difficult, having to strip out all that signature stuff!
I know that there's a Li-Ion in there, but those batteries are used to keep a timeclock alive. I don't know THAT much about batteries, but we have these massive batteries in our phones that tremendously increase our phones' weight just so we can have 4-6 hrs of "moderate use".... I would tend to think (again, i'm not an expert on the subject, just giving my 2 cents) that the tiny lithium ion battery wouldn't even be enough to power the radio and the mic, much less an operating system or hardware encoding device. Even if it could, it wouldn't be able to transfer all that much for that long, right? Sure, you could say it can grab the charge from the main battery etc, but couldn't we easily enough find out if there is any kind of electromagnetic signature or radio wave coming out of the devices when off? I'm sure someone out there in the interwebs has a device that can tell us this (a la Ghost Hunters or something?).
Regardless, we're all being tracked all the time. That's just the state of things. Wish it weren't, and wish there were somethign we could do about it, but not realy sure what options exist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said, couldn't put it in better way.
There are actually many more tracking devices available and more effective than our phone, such as your brain waves.

drumst1x said:
tiny lithium ion battery wouldn't even be enough to power the radio and the mic, much less an operating system or hardware encoding device. Even if it could, it wouldn't be able to transfer all that much for that long, right?
Regardless, we're all being tracked all the time. That's just the state of things. Wish it weren't, and wish there were somethign we could do about it, but not realy sure what options exist.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently, you seem to miss the point mate, the OP has seen
watching CBS's new fall lineup this evening, and saw them mention listening in on cellphones even while theyre turned off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this on CBS and wondering how this can be done on an android without being noticed.
Whereas you try to brush it aside by saying
Though even then, maybe they have some sort of super capacitor kinetic battery that will auto-charge with motion.... oh the conspiracy theory continues!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what I am saying is , it only needs a small amount of internal power source to trigger the main functions of the phone as and when needed by those who have needs for such capabilities. Now to wonder how it is or was done is all well and good but to try an suggest its just another conspiracy theory would be like sticking your head in the ground like an ostrich.
Let me take you back to the OP's question how is it possible without being noticed by the user, that is where, if the only the modem or only the MIC is activated / triggered, than there will be nothing to hear or see on the phone.(meaning phone will look inactive but is actively transmitting everything )
This thread is not about what can be done or cannot be done, its about not sticking over heads in the grounds and being aware of our situation
how text messages & WIFI can trigger
Now for the facts
The FBI develops some hacking tools internally and purchases others from the private sector. With such technology, the bureau can remotely activate the microphones in phones running Google Inc.'s GOOG +0.11% Android software to record conversations, one former U.S. official said. It can do the same to microphones in laptops without the user knowing, the person said. Google declined to comment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.​

I'm certainly not trying to say it's impossible. Just saying that there are MANY ways we are tracked, and it wouldn't be the most efficient to track (when phone is off) using Li-ion battery. Not saying it's not happening.
All this talk has made me want to purchase a device that can detect bugs / activity. Not only around the phone, but around the house, the car, etc... i'm getting more and more paranoid!

soraxd said:
watching CBS's new fall lineup this evening, and saw them mention listening in on cellphones even while theyre turned off. its not anything new, weve been seeing it in movies for years, where the government agencies listens in, or at least mentions their ability to listen in through cellphones when theyre turned off. eagle eye is one, and hostage (new show on cbs) mentioned it again tonight, which got me thinking if its realistically possible.
on the one hand, with android being as open source as it is, and millions upon millions of developers taking it apart, porting, and constantly rebuilding it from scratch, how could there possibly be a feature to not only listen in completely unnoticed, but do it while the phone is off?!
yet carrier iq actually happened.. and i would have never thought it could implemented without being spotted immediately.
soo, thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting topic. Time for some imagination to run wild.
Yes, technically, it is possible for a government to listen in to any cellphone they wish to, even when it is turned off.
How? To implant a self-contained, self-powered, eavesdropping chip to each and every phone being sold in the country. The configuration of this eavesdropper is left to anyone's imagination of science & espionage fiction, e.g., remote power on/off, induction charging (aka "wireless" charging) of built-in battery, gps tracking, etc.
Do-able? Highly unlikely, imho. Not for every phone that will be sold to the general public, at least.
The logistics will be too massive a challenge because this eavesdropping chip has to be implanted into every phone, and cellphone models change so frequently. The engineering time and effort, involved to implant this chip to each cellphone's mainboard seamlessly and fit into the cellphone casing, makes this virtually impossible to be done for each and every phone being sold, considering the lead-time for the engineering and the lightning rate at which newer models are being introduced to the public for sale.
Targetted phones - yes, this will be possible. If the buyer is known to be buying a certain phone from a certain telco, then it will be possible for a government to intervene the purchase and fake delay to the delivery date of the phone, to re-engineer the phone with the eavesdropper, before the telco hands the phone over to the buyer.
Generic eavesdropper implants?
If the phone manufacturer (Brand X) is from the same country as a government, then it is possible that a government will want to plant an eavesdropper in every phone being manufactured and to be sold in another targetted country, e.g., Country A. This can be easily done by having a motherboard version A for Brand X phones to be exported to country A. So all phones of Brand X being sold in Country A will have the eavesdropper.

chan.sk said:
Interesting topic. Time for some imagination to run wild.
Yes, technically, it is possible for a government to listen in to any cellphone they wish to, even when it is turned off.
How? To implant a self-contained, self-powered, eavesdropping chip to each and every phone being sold in the country. The configuration of this eavesdropper is left to anyone's imagination of science & espionage fiction, e.g., remote power on/off, induction charging (aka "wireless" charging) of built-in battery, gps tracking, etc.
Do-able? Highly unlikely, imho. Not for every phone that will be sold to the general public, at least.
The logistics will be too massive a challenge because this eavesdropping chip has to be implanted into every phone, and cellphone models change so frequently. The engineering time and effort, involved to implant this chip to each cellphone's mainboard seamlessly and fit into the cellphone casing, makes this virtually impossible to be done for each and every phone being sold, considering the lead-time for the engineering and the lightning rate at which newer models are being introduced to the public for sale.
Targetted phones - yes, this will be possible. If the buyer is known to be buying a certain phone from a certain telco, then it will be possible for a government to intervene the purchase and fake delay to the delivery date of the phone, to re-engineer the phone with the eavesdropper, before the telco hands the phone over to the buyer.
Generic eavesdropper implants?
If the phone manufacturer (Brand X) is from the same country as a government, then it is possible that a government will want to plant an eavesdropper in every phone being manufactured and to be sold in another targetted country, e.g., Country A. This can be easily done by having a motherboard version A for Brand X phones to be exported to country A. So all phones of Brand X being sold in Country A will have the eavesdropper.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good points mate, that's why this was mentioned earlier but end of the day such things can already be inserted into the CPU only awaiting switch ON/OFF by those whom it had been designed for is another point to add to yours. ( if not now, in time to come)
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.​

i think they can listen our voices.as you know when the phone is off but your phone clock still working fine.

i believe the ideal way to test this, would be to actively monitor the voltage of the phone. on the software side of things its much easier to be cleverly hidden, but on the hardware side nothing can happen without a draw in current. if someone really cared, they could monitor each part in the phone individually, to see when each and every part was doing something. tho i doubt anyone who has the know-how cares to, and anyone who cares has the know-how, lol.

soraxd said:
. tho i doubt anyone who has the know-how cares to, and anyone who cares has the know-how, lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For obvious reasons, it would be unwise to even think about it, as those who ventured too far in exposing such details ended up in serious problems, similar to this article
Mayer said Yahoo scrutinizes and fights US government data requests stamped with the authority of a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, but when the company losses battles it must do as directed or risk being branded a traitor.
Data requests authorized by the court come with an order barring anyone at the company receiving the request from disclosing anything about them, even their existence.
"If you don't comply, it is treason," Mayer said when asked why she couldn't just spill details of requests by US spy agencies for information about Yahoo users.
"We can't talk about it because it is classified," she continued. "Releasing classified information is treason, and you are incarcerated. In terms of protecting our users, it makes more sense to work within the system."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check this out! You , YES! you are an " Android ". Not your phone but U.
You Must watch this documentary concerning your privacy Terms & Conditions we had agreed to, by using a PC or Smartphone
How to say Thank you? If you find any post helpful on XDA, click on their Thanks button
If you are using XDA App or Tapatalk, long press on the post and select :good: Thanks Its easier to give "Feedback" in this manner than make an additional post.​

To bring closure to exactly how the smartphone is triggered , this article about The second operating system hiding in every mobile phone gives us the clue
While we can sort-of assume that the base stations in cell towers operated by large carriers are "safe", the fact of the matter is that base stations are becoming a lot cheaper, and are being sold on eBay - and there are even open source base station software packages. Such base stations can be used to target phones. Put a compromised base station in a crowded area - or even a financial district or some other sensitive area - and you can remotely turn on microphones, cameras, place rootkits, place calls/send SMS messages to expensive numbers, and so on. Yes, you can even brick phones permanently.
This is a pretty serious issue, but one that you rarely hear about. This is such low-level, complex software that I would guess very few people in the world actually understand everything that's going on here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
also look at this post
Check this out! Links to useful Guides and " Banned " Documentaries ​

Help I need to protect my wifi, cell and laptop

In March, my sister in law and I found out that we were being “followed”, and that “someone” had it in for her and that her car was marked and there were/are pictures and videos of the both of us. Not too long after we were warned about that, she found a flash drive that was blinking in the computer at her home and took it and went to work and plugged it in and it was recordings of conversations we had in her car. To narrow it all down quickly, her husband was tracking her car, hacked into our cellphones and my home laptop computer, I also had found a recording device under the daybed in my bedroom. I had realized that things looked different in my home when I would come home and once my neighbor across the street told me my dog was out and that he chased him down and put him back, -there is NO WAY he could have gotten out unless someone opened the gate. A spare key was in our garage for our son in which his brother would come in while we were at work (our thoughts is to retrieve the device download it and put it back), but nevertheless we were invaded, seemingly for over a year. So I am trying to find out how to find if I am still being hacked (cell and laptop), how to block help myself from being hacked again, how to protect my wifi (i got my own separate one from our house one), and how to make use of the programs I have purchased as a result of being stalked in such a manner.
I now am in constant paranoia over my electronics and I need help. I have several questions to cover a variety of areas dealing with this situation and I truly and desperately need help. I have downloaded tutorials and have familiarized myself with some things, but I would like to speak to an expert.
If you can help please message me.
Michelle

Mimi44 said:
In March, my sister in law and I found out that we were being “followed”, and that “someone” had it in for her and that her car was marked and there were/are pictures and videos of the both of us. Not too long after we were warned about that, she found a flash drive that was blinking in the computer at her home and took it and went to work and plugged it in and it was recordings of conversations we had in her car. To narrow it all down quickly, her husband was tracking her car, hacked into our cellphones and my home laptop computer, I also had found a recording device under the daybed in my bedroom. I had realized that things looked different in my home when I would come home and once my neighbor across the street told me my dog was out and that he chased him down and put him back, -there is NO WAY he could have gotten out unless someone opened the gate. A spare key was in our garage for our son in which his brother would come in while we were at work (our thoughts is to retrieve the device download it and put it back), but nevertheless we were invaded, seemingly for over a year. So I am trying to find out how to find if I am still being hacked (cell and laptop), how to block help myself from being hacked again, how to protect my wifi (i got my own separate one from our house one), and how to make use of the programs I have purchased as a result of being stalked in such a manner.
I now am in constant paranoia over my electronics and I need help. I have several questions to cover a variety of areas dealing with this situation and I truly and desperately need help. I have downloaded tutorials and have familiarized myself with some things, but I would like to speak to an expert.
If you can help please message me.
Michelle
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it is someone that is close to you, such as your sister in law's husband, it's gonna be hard because they have direct access to your hardware. The only thing I see fixing this situation is to involve law enforcement or some kind of measures to physically keep them away from your hardware. It's virtually impossible to protect the hens from the fox when the fox is inside the henhouse with the hens. It only works when the hens are on the inside and the fox is on the outside, if you understand what I'm saying.
Your biggest security threat in what you describe is a physical real world one, not an electronic or software one.
If he knows what he is doing and has physical access to your hardware, software and electronic safety measures won't help you because he could just bypass it.
If your issue was someone from the outside that doesn't have physical access to your hardware THEN software and electronic measures would give you a decent safety net. But in your situation I seriously doubt those measures will help you any.
Focus on the real problem.....HIM.
I DO NOT PROVIDE HELP IN PM, KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE

New Security Idea - Feedback

When someone steals a phone the first thing they usually do is a factory reset. "Factory Reset Protection" (FRP) is supposed to protect the owner by denying access to the phone unless the owners passcode is applied even if the phone has been reset.
One main problem with this form of protection is that once the phone has been reset the owner can no longer track the phone using the "Find my phone" app or any similar aftermarket application. Sure, the thief can't use the phone but the owner also loses all hope of ever finding their phone again.
But, what if there was some way to make sure that the Google account associated with the owner could remain associated with the phone even after a factory reset? This way the thief believes they have successfully reset the phone. They still can't use it unless they input the correct security code, but the owner can still track the phone once it has been powered back up and turned on.
Would something like this be possible to create?

Physical security is the only real security.
The price for my device is blood, the sweat is free. Avoid flashing your phone in public, eyes on your surroundings not your phone.
You can always blacklist the imei...

blackhawk said:
Physical security is the only real security.
The price for my device is blood, the sweat is free. Avoid flashing your phone in public, eyes on your surroundings not your phone.
You can always blacklist the imei...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but there are too many loser's out there happy enough to have an expensive phone of someone else's even if all they can use it for is wifi. Shoot, there are enough of them out there willing to steal your phone knowing that all it's going to be is an expensive paperweight. They don't care as long as they think they have something expensive.

Phdintheory said:
Yeah, but there are too many loser's out there happy enough to have an expensive phone of someone else's even if all they can use it for is wifi. Shoot, there are enough of them out there willing to steal your phone knowing that all it's going to be is an expensive paperweight. They don't care as long as they think they have something expensive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why physical security is the only thing that really works.

Example of physical security please?

Phdintheory said:
Example of physical security please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keeping the phone with you at all times.
Either in your hand or pocket in unsecured locations. Watch the people around you, not the phone when playing in the real world. Think.

Okay, yeah. That's what I thought you meant. See, the problem is I do that religiously and I still lost my phone. In this case what happened is that it was in the inside pocket of my jacket. I bent over and didn't notice that it had slipped out. I had never had problems with that before so didn't think it would have been a problem then. Didn't notice the phone missing until I had gotten home. Tracked my phone to a location with lots of people. The thief turned the phone off and has obviously reset it because I can no longer track it.
So... Physical security still doesn't account for "**** happening."

Which brings me back to the original question. Couldn't a set of code be written that keeps the Google account tied to the phone even after a factory reset has been performed?

Phdintheory said:
Okay, yeah. That's what I thought you meant. See, the problem is I do that religiously and I still lost my phone. In this case what happened is that it was in the inside pocket of my jacket. I bent over and didn't notice that it had slipped out. I had never had problems with that before so didn't think it would have been a problem then. Didn't notice the phone missing until I had gotten home. Tracked my phone to a location with lots of people. The thief turned the phone off and has obviously reset it because I can no longer track it.
So... Physical security still doesn't account for "**** happening."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I have never lost a cell phone in 12 years or for that matter broken one. I have "lost" them inside the house or van temporarily but that is rare.
Secure it so it can't fall out. I find bdu cargo pockets are perfect for my N10+'s.

Okay, just so you understand, you're not helping. I guess people aren't as good as you are. **** happens to the rest of us I guess. Please either answer the question or let others answer who have something to offer relating to the question as asked.

Phdintheory said:
Okay, just so you understand, you're not helping. I guess people aren't as good as you are. **** happens to the rest of us I guess. Please either answer the question or let others answer who have something to offer relating to the question as asked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No matter what you do once it's out of your hands, it's gone.
Actions... consequences.
A third party app like this. That just protects the data as does frp.
A hidden stand alone gps tracker... smaller ones exist that could be embedded but that's getting DOD spook crazy to solve a simple problem of accountability on your part.

Phdintheory said:
Okay, just so you understand, you're not helping. I guess people aren't as good as you are. **** happens to the rest of us I guess. Please either answer the question or let others answer who have something to offer relating to the question as asked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In theory you could set aside part of the partition that wouldn't get wiped or affected by reinstalling system with the code you suggest, or onto another chip. But this then means it becomes a security & privacy issue for phones that are sold or given to wives/partners etc, and then what about the next owner, do they get to have their account also permanently associated with phone? So, no this will never be allowed by Google/phone companies. As Blackhawk says, physical security is the where it's at, ultimately.