Related
Hi all -
after buying a pocket pc (spv M3100) and playing around with the UI to get a Iphone like simplicity but with a bit of originality I was wondering what you guys use as a decent UI -
- is there any software you use to improve interaction - I'm on a Iphone clone/vista hybrid with wisbar advance, I'v tried RLtoday and Clauncg even Xperience but I cant find anything I fall in love with.
Clown fish are bugging me now - were all going to be bored of the Iphone before it released.
Let me know what you've got? - I'd be particularly interested if anyone uses a completely flash UI, or if they exist...
or what you want out of a decent user interface.
JJ McG.
Eh --
I value performance more than a polished GUI. WisBar Advance slows my device down too much ... as well as most other apps.
If I am in the car, and need to open my contacts to find someone's address, I don't want to wait 3-5 seconds more because of some dumb skinning program.
So you’re telling me you get your little stylus out every time you’re in your car and you need to get a contact? People crash because mobile phones distract them, so god knows what would happen if we all used styluses in our cars... I’m sure if it increased your survival rate whilst driving 3 or 4 seconds worth of loading time wouldn’t kill you, literally.
Or do you use your finger? In which case I'm sure you’ve opened the wrong program or mashed your touch screen activating 2 or 3 apps at once? Would you not prefer bigger buttons like an Iphone or a wisbar skin?
I opened this topic for discussion of this subject in the hope that I could maybe create a decent app that people actually want, not for sarcastic application bashing. Theres more to wisbar and Iphone than looks, its practical as well... do you not think.
Regards.
JJ McG.
SPB Mobile Shell is fairly fat finger friendly.
V
There have been some very good UI's posted across these forums.
From time to time I've thought Oh I like the look of that - I want it. But if I changed my UI every time I liked something I'd be forever dedicating time to it, because some of these methods aren't quick, i.e. the learning curve on Wisbar.
I will always commend people who make the effort for others to have something different on there phone rather than the bog standard interface, practicality does have to be a consideration as well...
It's whatever floats your boat at the end of the day.
For me I'm happy with my plethora of SPB products jamming up my screen, gives me everything I need and it looks nice too, IMHO.
If you Jonjamesm want to create something then crack on my friend, take a look round the forums and see some of the very nice UI's...
Form and functionality, just plain bling your the designer
smartskey I think hardware buttons are the way to go while driving (or voice rec). With green button, smartskey, you can quickly get to speed dials and call history.
The other big app I use while in the car is WMP, I assigned the IE button on my wizard to start WMP instead. Then the dpad and 2 softkeys can do about 99% of needed inputs. The only problems are:
-a couple functions in WMP require screen tap (library back button and ???)
-WMP forgets where I am at a lot
Impressions from HTC Cruise - Windows Mobile
Hello All,
I have been relatively new here, but I thought I could contribute in the forums by posting my (unbiased) views about HTC Cruise here, hoping other people may find them useful. I am a software developer, so although I do not have an experience with hi-tech PDAs and smartphones, (never owned such a device before), I am fine with the technicalities of such devices.
My everyday phone was a simple sony ericson K510i . What had always annoyed me was that in most "simple" phones, it was quite hard to control the phone via my PC, do backups, backup contacts, SMSes, etc. My sony was good, I had found "MYPhoneExplorer" which pretty much did all those things for my phone. The screen was little bit outdated in terms of resolution, but I did not mind much.
And then came iPhone (which I never owned). I was impressed by its design, usability and user friendliness. I also liked the idea of having WiFi on it. I was close to buying that phone and using one of the available tools to unlock it, (noway I would pay for a contract - I am UK based). My brother who is into mobiles and gadgets more than I am, commented on the fact that iPhone is an "old" generation phone in terms of phone technologies and overpriced. I soon realised it was quite overpriced and started looking at alternatives. I was happy to see HTC would release a really cool phone, which I could get as my Christmas gift (yes, dream on, I had my eyes on it since November and managed to get it this February)...
So, what are my impressions so far?
I dare to say, quite mixed...
On the one hand this device is really wicked and cool! It has all the things I had always liked and needed in a single device. Packing a GPS, a radio, 3G, WiFi in a nice package is just amazing. I can now listen to music, watch videos, find my way around using GPS and have a nice PDA. These are really cool things! No need to have my pockets filled with separate devices...
On the other hand, this phone costed me little bit less than 400 pounds. One can argue you can get a laptop for that price, but then again, a laptop is not a phone. The video issues has not been much of an issue for me, I encode my videos at QVGA and all is well. However, I do get *very* upset when I realise that there is hidden potential in the hardware platform which has not been utilised. What I found bad straight from the moment i used it, is that when i press the "phone-call" hard button, there really is a lag when drawing the blue rectangle above the dialpad, (I am talking about the area which shows the names of your contacts as you type the numbers below.) I mean, come on, so much CPU power, and I can see the blue area being drawn? The other things is that if a couple of applications are running, then the phone does not seem to be operating so smoothly. Again, in order to be fair, it is still very usable. However, as things stand now in the market, in terms of specifications this phone is easily on the upper part, so in my opinion it should be fast, not just "very usable".
My other bit of criticism is probably related to Windows rather than HTC cruise. I find this OS quite interesting on the device, there is a huge applications' base and the things that are missing can be coded by talented people. However, I find the platform a little bit of a pain to use in a pure phone context. Why do i have to check an option everytime I want to get back a delivery report for my SMS? Why do I have to hack the registry to make this permanent? I set a wallpaper in my phone, then I set its transparency, then I realise it is hidden by the today plugin, which I can of course disable. If I disable it I loose certain features which are accessible straight away. I can of course get a new plugin that matchs my needs. Why is it so hard to have tabs with incoming/outgoing/missed calls? This is a feature that phones that cost 10 times less have. Of course Windows 6.1 has this, but then I would have to "install" a new ROM. Simple question: Why do I have to do these things? Why dont' they get it right from the beginning? Don't get me wrong, I am a technology enthusiast and I am sure I will manage to set up the phone the way I want. A number of users out there will do the same thing. However, is this platform one that non-enthusiasts would find user-friendly?
Look at all those skins and modding. Really cool. And the moment you press a button on your really cool new Today plugin, an ungly Windows application will pop up.
I hope that my criticism will be received well here! I like the phone, Windows is cool on it, but I think Microsoft has quite some way to go in order to make their platform really simple to use and user-friendly (think iPhone for example, my parents could use that, but I am quite sure if I show them my phone, they will not know how to make a a phonecall with it!)
In many ways some requirements are contradictory: Being user-friendly means you may have to hide settings, having your platform run on a variety of hardware means you cut corners here and there. Hopefully Microsoft will get it right with version 7 and 8, screenshots look quite good.
As for HTC... They lost a little bit of their credibility with a couple of issues for me. First the sound issue with the french rom which was initially denied and then fixed by people in this forum, then of course the drivers issue. I intend to make good use of this cool phone and customise it to my needs, it just takes time.
For your information, I find these applications useful:
Coreplayer (obviously!)
TouchPal keyboard works good for me
WKTask (and get rid off that default task switcher)
MyMobiler installs on your PC and a little "daemon-service" on your phone, (which you can disable). Then it allows you to control your phone from your desktop.
PocketCM did not particularly appeal to me, so I removed it
FunContact was cool, and loved it. Unfortunately, two things were not so good:
a) Splash screen and loading time
b) sometimes it made my phone freeze
Thanks for reading this (long) post,
Michael
Good post...Here are my impressions as well.
I used to carry a Palm Tx and a Motorala SLVR. I have been looking for the most ideal device to "do it all", PDA, phone (quad band gsm, tri band umts), wifi, and gps. There was nothing realy that appealing on the market until I read about the HTC Touch Cruise.
I read about people's complaints about the "driver" issues and hardware acceleration, and decided to take the risk and bought the phone from a gsm seller online. The phone was unbranded and did not have any stupid carrier proprietary software.
For the most part, I am very happy with the Touch Cruise. I have dumped the palm pda and the slvr, and have not looked back.
I just spent the last 2 weeks traveling to UK (London), Germany (Frankfurt), and Italy (Padova). As a mobile phone, the Touch Cruise functioned flawlessly and had 3G connections where they were available. Couldn't have asked for better features out of a "world" phone.
The TomTom GPS also ran quite well (Western Europe maps). Had to drive alot in Frankfurt and never got lost. Even traffic reports were right on the money.
As for a PDA, it blows the Palm syncing and calendar features out of the water. I used to be a Palm pilot only person, but Palm has become a dinasaur in their attutude to features and interface. The pocket pc has in my opinion surpassed them.
As a portable media device, it does kind of ok . Core Media Player is a must install, microsoft's media players still suck and are not usable and dont support all codecs. This device is not really ideal for video in my opinion. You have to re-encode videos to QVGA for ppc level quality, then video will play fine. You cant simply take a wmv file and dump it on the device to view, it wont work. As for music/mp3's, it works great. I got on a 10 hour flight from UK to US, and used it play music and games, and still had 40% battery charge left over and used an hour of GPS on the way home, with 20% left over.
In all fairness, the HTC could run a little faster, but I blame Microsoft and HTC for hogging up the cpu and not using hardware acceleration.
Since media (video) is not high on my list of required features, I am quite happy with the HTC Touch Cruise.
darkazally, I tend to agree with you really...
I guess if one did not have such a device before or had a really old one, then HTC Cruise is really super. On the other hand I can see certain people's frustration with Cruise. It is mostly people who owned 3 or 4 PDAs before and were probably expecting to be blown away by its specs; I kind of sypathise with them....
I read in an article written by someone at Microsoft, that companies tend to overload Windows with their own propriatory software and then the whole experience goes downwards. He mentioned that for the next versions of windows mobile, they intend to post stricter requirements just because of this situation.
As I also read in these forums, people who got their devices from O2 (just to mention a single company), seem to have more issues with HTC's performance...
I enjoy using the phone everyday and I am in the process of customising it to my needs, though it takes some time!
Uhhh mymobiler is amazing thanks for posting that! That is frickin sweet!
Great review, I tend to agree.
As far as PIM Management, I came from using two devices, a slim panasonic phone and a Xircom Rex 6000 PDA in the early part of this decade (circa 2001), like you I converged them into a Sony Ericsson phone (T610>T616) which had limited capabilities and lacked a lot of features my Rex had. In 2006, I got my first Windows Mobile smartphone, a Qtek 8310 (HTC Tornado), and now I have the HTC Touch Cruise.
Ever since getting into Windows Mobile, I thought that HTC/Microsoft had delivered great functionality, but poor usability and way too much lag for such high powered devices. Take for instance the settings panel. There are probably over 8 programs (4+networking icons, 3+ button config icons, ect) in there that only have one check box, when I'm sure HTC/Microsoft could very easily put them into one or two easy to use program with a Help feature.
But at the end of the day, I don't care if no one can use my device as long as I understand it. Additional consolation is provided in the fact that this phone looks so damned sexy
My Own impression
First of all, I'm new here & let me introduce my self...
I'm Richard & i'm from Indonesia.
I've waited for +3 months, before I decided to buy HTC Touch Cruise.
My other candidate are Atom Life & Nokia N82.
Soon (2 days) after my pal (who own a PDA shop) introduce me to Touch Cruise, I bought it
First impression is luxury.
Second impression........Windows Mobile sucks......
I have done hard reset for 4 times now....due to mis configure the registry....
I've done quite intensive test on my Touch Cruise, including Video,Audio,GPS,3G & Internet,Battery life & Applications.
This is my score (0-10):
1. Stability : 3 -> Typical Windows product
2. Looks : 9
3. Dimension : 8
4. Features : 8
5. Usability : 8
6. User Friendliness : 6
7. Battery Life : 7
Average score : 7
The Driver issue doesn't bothered me yet, so I'm very pleased with my new Touch Cruise
NOTE:
FYI,try not to uninstall anything from your TC.
Microsoft Windows product tends to leave "garbage" into the Registry & it will slow down your TC.
Choose wisely before installing & if you have to uninstall,search & delete any leftover inside the registry.
d4rkkn16ht said:
1. Stability : 3 -> Typical Windows product
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's wrong with stability? I'd have to agree that it is probably not the best device overall, but I didn't have a single stability issue with it. Maybe, you've got a defective one?
You know, there are certain lag things that I don't think are due to video drivers. I mentioned this in another thread "Why the lag" but I used to have a Cingular 8525 and supposedly that device had video drivers. It still lagged with a phone skin when you hit the phone button. Rotating the screen was still slow. I hate little things that lag like that. it should be smooth navigation / interface.
The device doesn't have a cohesive feel to it when we have to customize the **** out of it to get it to work the way we want to. You're right when we make a today screen look good then all the underlying apps are ugly windows apps. Your transparency issue, that can only be done from within the Windows picture viewer not the HTC photo viewer. You need to install your own video player. The HTC video browser app only shows videos with certain extensions. It's like you have to have a specific app for every little thing and then it feels like there isn't a streamlined feel to the device.
I gotta give credit to HTC for trying to improve the interface with their apps, the Windows interface is archaic. It's just the combo of the 2 doesn't allow for a polished interface.
hambola said:
The device doesn't have a cohesive feel to it when we have to customize the **** out of it to get it to work the way we want to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the other hand, thanks to HTC for a platform that allows us to do so and even greater kudos to all the xda-developer wizards who make it possible (and relatively easy for the most part).
Not enough can be said for xda. Although I'm a new poster I've been reading these forums for about a year now. Helped me out greatly with the 8525 and is proving to be helpful with the Cruise.
>You're right when we make a today screen look good then all the underlying apps are ugly windows apps.
I am happy we agree on this, I just wish it had a little bit of the Apple touch on it, that's all....
>Your transparency issue, that can only be done from within the Windows picture viewer not the HTC photo viewer.
All I wanted is a kind of minimal interface, so I can set my own wallpaper and not have it hidden by the huge HTC today plug-in. I have installed spb shell for a couple of weeks now and it looks great. I also discovered the HTC Home Customiser which looks cool, so, that's nice too.
>You need to install your own video player...
I think HTC should actually write a very generous paycheck for the people that developed CorePlayer. Without that one, Cruise would be a *little* bit of a disaster.
Overall I guess Windows is a versatile OS with lots and lots of space of customisation and at the end you do get it right, it just takes a lot of patience and resets to get there...
rev3nant said:
What's wrong with stability? I'd have to agree that it is probably not the best device overall, but I didn't have a single stability issue with it. Maybe, you've got a defective one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After some intensive test, I found some irritating bug that caused stability issues.
Quick Menu sometimes disappeared after running several applications.
System Hang at random cause.
Some system settings cannot be changed even if you've already change it.
Redundancy in Registry Entry that can cause stability issues if you change the entry. (not considered a bug if you don't change it)
and some other (not quite sure yet...)
Have you tried a different ROM?
48 Hour Review additional thoughts
==========================
OK the 5 row keyboard is REALLY worth it. Was doing a comparision of a lot of HTC product in a side by side with a few clients on Fri. The 5 row keyboard was the most wanted feature by all those who type seriously for meeting notes etc. The ability to produce numbers with out having to ALT - won this hands down for a few who ordered there and then.
Backlighting on keyboard - good and pretty even considering it looks like a point source is used to produce it. Numbers 5/6 are slightly brighter - the rest - evenly illuminated.
Battery life - I wish to clarify/confess to using the SaveBattery HTC Juno cab in creating the battery life figures I quoted earlier in the 24 hour review. I never even waited to find out how I did before.
I've been tweaking today with - Advanced_Configuration_Tool_v3.1.cab. Useful fine tuning tool.
Biggest annoyance - backlight going out 5 secs into a call. Real pain if you need to enter keys after call connects. There is a regitry tweak in the tweaks thread I'm going to try.
Original 24 Hour Review Below
======================
Coming from my TYTNII yesterday
Based in part on answering other comments and my own observations......
Criteria - it has to earn a living - it has to be a miniature office on the move 24 x 7 x 365. TYTNII worn out after 14 months - replacement needed.
WARM - yes - a lot of electronics packed in a small package to make space for the large (relatively) 1340mAh battery.
Battery life - less than my TYTNII but not dangerously so in a 07:30 - 18:00 business day, lot of Direct Push, long calls, Bluetooth all day, WiFi OFF, Screen brightness higher than default, 4Gb SD card in standard power management, 10 minute top offs in the car when driving. Finished at 30% instead of my more normal 40%.
Stylus - nice magnetic "snick" as it is sucked into the holder. You would have to work hard to lose it. "Soft" feel top - nice.
JETCET printer configuration tool - Wow! If you are Canon or HP there seems to be a good range of drivers. It WORKS too if you know how to set up printing on a network.
Screen - STUNNING with the higher resolution. Looks Cleartype without the cleartype turned on (which only makes it better).
Bluetoothed to the car (BMW I-Drive setup) with no problems and the address book synched to car FASTER than TYTNII. Sound quality slightly poorer than TYTNII but still very acceptable and streets ahead of the old i-Mate K-JAM.
Touchflo - very nice, very cute, very hard on my big stubby fingers and disabled. Probably helps the battery life. I would prefer HTC Home but available CABS don't work on the screen resolution (well they work but look too small!). Anyone working on one?
MS Voice Command - I'm working the threads and registry hacks on this. There is an error on install which I'm trying to figure. (edit) - Just discovered it is non fatal. VC works fine to make calls - I don't care about the rest. Used the extracted 1.6.19209 CAB you can find on RapidShare (end edit). Hah! For the first time EVER with VC when I asked "What is the time" it told me the time - instead of the date!!!!
Only one assignable button folks. Button 1 (HOLD). Rest are presumably used to create the various actions on the zoom and shrink touches on the buttons and cannot be made available.
YouTube - well get hooked to WiFi first!! It will do it over Edge but only really in Low Quality mode. HQ mode (if availble) is a matching 640x480 and looks super.
Ripped 320x240 pixel DVD's in WMV rescale to the screen and look great.
Teeter game - addictive!
It is small, slightly heavy and smacks of quality. Build Quality is good. A good "heft" in the hand and good in the landscape belt clip (T-Mobile accessory for the Wing). Already got a lot of questions from those who noticed - "New Phone?" followed by "Nice" .
Overall - The extra horsepower and RAM, turn off the "fluff" and this is what the TYTNII didn't QUITE manage.
Build 19965.1.2.3
ROM 1.90.401.1 WWE
ROM Date 8/1/08 (US)
Radio 1.02.25.19
Protocol 52.33.25.17U
Keeper.....
Thanks for the review!
graemesmith said:
Keeper.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the review! i have a question.. the TyTN II is too big for me to slide out the keyboard and with one thumb reach the other side of the key board.. basically one handed typing.. how does the Touch Pro fit?
thanks!
Great review and I see you are in the US so I do have a question. How does the GPS work? Does the GPS updater work properly and does the A-GPS help with obtaining a lock? Just wondering how fast the unlocked version connects in the US right out of the box or if it requires tweaks to make it lock faster. Also, how long does it take to load a youtube on edge. I already know it degrades the quality like the iphone but I would still like to know how fast does it take and if it can stream on edge even with the lower quality. Thanks.
Jedidiah said:
thanks for the review! i have a question.. the TyTN II is too big for me to slide out the keyboard and with one thumb reach the other side of the key board.. basically one handed typing.. how does the Touch Pro fit?
thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the form factor is smaller than TYTNII so my big (ex)sailor hands can push it open and single thumb type OK. Sitting in palm of hand, fingers curled around screen edge and keyboard nearest you. 5 row keyboard makes for smaller keys though - it is a good feel but I wouldn't want to do a lot of single thumb typing - but you can. Guess it depends on your hands!! But you are going to LOVE the 5 row keyboard - no messing around to get numbers anymore. This is already a HUGE plus for entering IP addressing etc.
Raspster said:
Great review and I see you are in the US so I do have a question. How does the GPS work? Does the GPS updater work properly and does the A-GPS help with obtaining a lock? Just wondering how fast the unlocked version connects in the US right out of the box or if it requires tweaks to make it lock faster. Also, how long does it take to load a youtube on edge. I already know it degrades the quality like the iphone but I would still like to know how fast does it take and if it can stream on edge even with the lower quality. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GPS - Yep this is the UK/EU unit through Expansys/Mobileplanet. GPS lock time in my part of the world (USA New England) is 30 secs after running HTC QuickkGPS to get satelitte updates. Comparable to TYTNII and tested with GoogleMaps "Use GPS" feature.
YouTube - Well - first understand that a lot of YouTube videos are available in Standard Quality and High Quality. I'm not 100% sure - but standard looks like HEAVILY compressed 320x240 or REALLY heavily compressed 640 x 480. High Quality is pretty much low compressed 640 x 480.
The player in the phone has an option to autoselect or force High Quality streaming.
In High Quality on Edge it takes about 5 mins to get a 10 min video (from the few I have tested). There is a clear "loading" icon that is a circle running around with a % indicator in the middle. When enough of the video is in - it gets to 100% and will start playing. 100% does NOT mean the whole video - just enough buffered to get going. If you view ahead of available data then it stops playing and starts buffering again. Just like on a PC with slow Internet. There is no permanent cache to replay a video from. Close and reopen and you have to start again - but that is just like YouTube on a PC - I'm sure it is designed to stop you "acquiring" videos! While I am sure someone out of sheer intellectual interest will figure a workaround. It is WAY easier on a PC with capture tools and a ton of horsepower.
Let's put it this way - YouTube in a neat extra. Go back to MY personal criteria stated at the start of my original review and it is not really important!
But that Teeter game....... Now there is a real time waster. I suspect as much as BubbleBreaker........
I've been at XDA for 2 years, initially trying to get my T-Mobile MDA to perform better, and for this past year my T-Mobile WING. I've never owned an iPhone -- nor have I ever sat down to ask friends of mine who have iPhones these questions. But now I am curious:
Apple makes killer products with thoughtful attention to product design, customer usability design, graphical interface, and occasionally some software/hardware breakthroughs (like multi-touch for the iphone). Then they market to consumers like nobody else, in every sales channel. This is all the "in-front of the curtain" stuff everyone knows.
But I know from being a Mac user since 1986 with my original MacSE, all way up to the current Mac Pro desktop and MacBook Pro laptop, that "behind the curtain" they ALL lock-up at times, requiring restarts, etc. And servicing. I just got my Mac Pro desktop back from repair where a hard drive failed. ... But I am out of touch completely with the world of iPhones.
Some of you have iPhones. I'm curious on a given day, how many apps can you run simultaneously, and how often does an iPhone freeze up requiring a reset? For comparative purposes, on my "XDA-modified" Wing (HTC Herald) -- which has an old & slow processor, and very litle RAM, I can now, after many software improvements, run Google Maps, Contact Manager, Notes, Total Commander, OperaMini browser, "Photos & Videos" photo cropper, and sometimes my MP3 player all open at same time, and not crash. My MP3 player *will* cause all that to lock up, and I know this, so I don't normally do this, but under normal usage, all of the above WITHOUT the MP3 player is doable), and I task-switch between these open apps.
How much can the iPhone handle simultaneously?
Do they freeze up time to time?
If so, how often for an average user?
What's the remedy? A "restart"?
This is not a "shootout" question. It really is just curiosity because I hear all the time the many great things about the iPhone (but that it lacks video, and MMS messaging), but I have no clue at all if they generally never lock up, or if they do. thanks, in advance for any comments.
quicksite said:
How much can the iPhone handle simultaneously?
Do they freeze up time to time?
If so, how often for an average user?
What's the remedy? A "restart"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a) for an "average" user - 1 app at a time (the exception being itunes + whatever app you want to use.)
for someone who is willing to mod there iphone (jailbreak + backgrounder app) i'll reckon 3 - 4 apps.
b) hardly, again for an average user this would be even less, probably once a couple of months.
if you are into cutting edge stuff then more freq., maybe once a week.
c)1) hold the home button , this should force the the app to close.
2) if the above step does not work, turn of the phone by holding the power button
3)if that does not work, reboot by holding the power and home button simultaneously.
Thats being generous Yes the iPhone DOES lock up and freeze, fairly often. At least as much as a factory standard WinMo device, if not more. Of course WinMos, being much more open can be modified and as such they have the potential to be less reliable if the modding isnt careful.
rovex said:
Thats being generous Yes the iPhone DOES lock up and freeze, fairly often. At least as much as a factory standard WinMo device, if not more. Of course WinMos, being much more open can be modified and as such they have the potential to be less reliable if the modding isnt careful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i beg to differ, winmo requires a softrest atleast every week, on the other hand i have not had to reboot my iphone since last dec.
Well my experience is somewhat different, the iPhone i had to test (im a technology reviewer) required a reset at least every few days. Ive only just given it backafter 6 months or use so it wasnt to do with early software. My everyday phone is a Touch HD, and it does have issues, but normally only with opera, nothing else causes any problems that need a reset.
rovex said:
Thats being generous Yes the iPhone DOES lock up and freeze, fairly often. At least as much as a factory standard WinMo device, if not more. Of course WinMos, being much more open can be modified and as such they have the potential to be less reliable if the modding isnt careful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just no
It hardly ever screws up, but does sometimes.
But to say more than stock WM is hilarious.
The great thing is that because it only runs one thing at a time, it never runs out of memory unlike sock wm. Backgrounder on jailbroken iphones lets you run stuff in the background. I always had mail (with 2 accounts) sms, safari and ipod in the background with no probs
Well, since i experience otherwise.. JUST YES. I love how others automatically write off your experience because they don't experience it.
Multitasking has little to do with anything, some of the stock and buyable apps for the iPhone are problematic and cause it to lock up. Im hardly the first or last person the find this.
rovex said:
Well, since i experience otherwise.. JUST YES. I love how others automatically write off your experience because they don't experience it.
Multitasking has little to do with anything, some of the stock and buyable apps for the iPhone are problematic and cause it to lock up. Im hardly the first or last person the find this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
just out of curiosity, what firmware were you running ??? and what were the stock applications that caused you to lock up.
and did you actually lock up or did the application crash???
rorydaredkign said:
Just no
It hardly ever screws up, but does sometimes.
But to say more than stock WM is hilarious.
The great thing is that because it only runs one thing at a time, it never runs out of memory unlike sock wm. Backgrounder on jailbroken iphones lets you run stuff in the background. I always had mail (with 2 accounts) sms, safari and ipod in the background with no probs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow you ran a mp3 player, sms and the web and it didn't freeze?? AMAZING.. /sarcasm
Apples attitude is 'my way or the highway' and as someone mentioned, windows can be tweaked opening to reliability problems.
My WinMO device hasn't required a softreset for about a month. My friends iPhone froze as soon as i ran a app, forgot what it was called.
If Microsoft made a phone that was the perfect config to their software, it'll run like a reliable phone but that's Apples territory. There is a reason why it's called "Jail"Break.
Same with the OSX and Windows.. you can't compare cause Microsoft makes it work with thousands of hardware and is bound to run into a problem somewhere. OSX is very limited so they hardly run into problems.
I've used Windows Mobile phones (standard and professional) since 2005. (Starting with the Audiovox SMT 5600) In addition, I have had a work BlackBerry since 2007, and an iPhone (now iPhone 3G) since 2008.
To answer your questions, I have rarely (maybe once every few months) had the iPhone freeze up requiring a reboot. To be honest, I rarely had a hard freeze on any of my Windows Mobile phones BUT I did restart them once a week because they just ran better that way. (Memory leaks, probably)
You can't compare the iPhone directly because by design, only a few applications run simultaneously: Mail, Phone, Safari, iPod. (And possibly Maps)
However, the iPhone seems very good at switching from application to application, with no noticeable memory leaks.
I've found that it really depends on what you expect the phone to do. I rarely talk on the phone or text; for me, it's all about email and Internet usage. The Safari browser is currently second-to-none, and the iPhone is exceptionally good at connecting to Wi-Fi whenever available seamlessly. And, since the email application uses Safari to render, it is also very good.
Thank you for all your replies. It wouldn't be the tech world if there wasn't vast -- sometimes diametrically opposed -- disagreement.
The great thing is that because it only runs one thing at a time, it never runs out of memory unlike sock wm. Backgrounder on jailbroken iphones lets you run stuff in the background. I always had mail (with 2 accounts) sms, safari and ipod in the background with no probs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once again, my inquiry is not for "shootout" reasons. It has to do more with the reliability of the overall user experience on the iPhone. I know from only briefly using it for 15 minutes or so, how responsive it is, and how easy the interface is to use. But it only struck me recently, given this new explosion in Apps for Touchscreen devices, that the more things people are going to want their iphones to do, DO they ever freeze up.
I was looking for an answer like "only 1 out of 100 people, and maybe then, maybe every 3-4 months, so in general it just doesn't freeze up in numbers high enough to be statistically noteworthy".
But even given the disagreement of experiences just amongst 3-4 people in this thread (a very tiny sample), it freezes more than I would have expected. That's not to lower the grade of reliability in using an iPhone to accomplish a series of tasks; it's more just to note: YES, IT DOES FREEZE UP, on occasion, but rarely.
I already know my old T-Mobile MDA, and now my new T-Mobile WING, froze up a lot, for my taste; and that was before I started modding here at XDA. But I attribute most of those freezeups to the simple hardware inadequacy issue of slow processor and not a lot of RAM. So, if I wanted to launch a bunch of things to stay in memory, to swap back and forth between apps, the WM device would lock up, requiring a soft-reset to reboot the device.
WHich is why XDA-developers has pulled off miracles by, in effect, doubling or probably more like tripling, the usefulness of my WM phone.
But regarding this:
The great thing is that because it only runs one thing at a time, it never runs out of memory unlike sock wm. Backgrounder on jailbroken iphones lets you run stuff in the background. I always had mail (with 2 accounts) sms, safari and ipod in the background with no probs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm trying to interpret this correctly. Running only one thing at a time is only a great benefit if all apps open relatively instantaneously, like, in a half second. So I could hop between selecting text within a browser, then paste it in to a notes document, edit it a bit, then look up an address on Google Maps, find it, grab the link, then add it to my text doc, then snap a few pics, attach them to an email along with my edited text, and send -- perhaps with my mp3 player playing inot my earphones the whole time.
I am talking about realtime use-case scenarios, not simply the sequential moving from app to app on an iphone. So, what I am interested in NOW is doing a bit of a shootout between an iphone and a WM phone in accomplishing a real-life array of tasks -- because that's the real test of the performance of a phone. Not what it does in demo mode, but in reallife getting stuff accomplished mode.
Is anyone here interested in helping to construct a few scenarios? I mean a wide variety of stuff, from emergencies and need and ambulance and also to perform CPR on someone and finding out where they are, to going to a demonstration in Washington DC, coordinating your meeting spot, using Google Maps to track where various people are, shooting photos, updating a blog in real time, etc --- and many kinds of multi-tasking of life demands ?
I am seeing 5 if not 6 platforms now poised to battle each other in the downloadable widget/apps dept -- Apple, Google Android, Blackberry, WindowsMobile, Palm, maybe Symbian, who knows maybe Nokia --- and I am interested in how this all starts to play out when people load suff onto their phone expecting to do x, y, z at the same time, or closely in sequence -- and how each platform is poised to handle these consumer behaviors.
thanks for the headstart in learning that the iPhone, though perhaps more reliable than WM in not freezing up so often, still does have this issue to contend with from time to time.
In a sense, WindowsMobile users almost expect there will be hang ups time to time... frsutrating and irritating, but not like a major surprise. Whereas I would imagine iPhone users have very high expectations, like close to perfection, and will not take kindly to any increasing freezeups.
Just my 2 cents on this in general.
quicksite said:
I'm trying to interpret this correctly. Running only one thing at a time is only a great benefit if all apps open relatively instantaneously, like, in a half second. So I could hop between selecting text within a browser, then paste it in to a notes document, edit it a bit, then look up an address on Google Maps, find it, grab the link, then add it to my text doc, then snap a few pics, attach them to an email along with my edited text, and send -- perhaps with my mp3 player playing inot my earphones the whole time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you do know that the iphone cannot do almost half of the things listed here
fallenczar said:
you do know that the iphone cannot do almost half of the things listed here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that's kinda why I listed them, kind of like at the start of a race, ready-set-go! And when it comes time for iphone to shoot video, race ends... or sending an MMS message.
As far as I know those are the two main things, right? But in all fairness, you just know Apple is going to have those two things added into and working in their next big product release.
So I am really aiming this for that next release... My overall premise is that the consumer marketplace has almost no clue about what all these competing devices & platforms do and can't do. But that's not because they're stupid. Rather it's because they are hyper-marketed at, very effectively, with really sharp ads that focus on different whiz-bangs -- coming at them from 3 different industry sectors all at once:
the Carriers tout their packages and calling features mixed in with snippets of cool phone, then the phone makers tout their newest whizbang devices features & differentiatable special gizmos, and the platforms come at them with their own angles, again inserting whiz bang phone devices into the ads. Then I guess you could add a 4th source -- bloviating saleasmen at Best Buy (in USA) showing people their latest most expensive phones, regardless of the bigger picture questions of platform and carriers required to use it.
This is my reason for wanting to develop several real-world use-case scenarios, just to test how well each achieves the end-objective.
quicksite said:
Well that's kinda why I listed them, kind of like at the start of a race, ready-set-go! And when it comes time for iphone to shoot video, race ends... or sending an MMS message.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well not quite
there are a couple of video rec. and mms apps, and they work as reliably as apps on other platforms.
However, i don't think it would be fair to compare 2 platforms that are so dissimilar, one being media centric, the other being business centric.
You are right about not really being able to compare them, they are two different devices with 2 completely different intended audiences.
I have used WM since 2001 constantly and I have used my iPhone for about 2 months.
Why WM devices are more like a little mini computer in my pocket where as my iPhone is more like a pocket media device that does lots of things that WM does, but not all.
I would say that my iPhone has only crashed 1 time in 2 months and that was from some jailbreak action, never from normal use. There are a couple of things that should be clarified about the iPhone and its limitations though:
1. No copy and paste. Duh. Everyone knows that. I knew it going into the whole 2 year contact. I can't honestly say that other than entering in my signature for emails has that really been an issue.
2. MMS. Today was the first time I wanted to send an MMS and I just emailed it to their phone number instead. No biggy. Worked well.
3. No true multi tasking. I disagree with this one. While there are some things I would prefer to be able to run at the same time most programs save state when they are closed so they are exactly back where they where when you closed it. Games, utilites etc.
Heck, the free timer I downloaded is programed so well that the start time used is the actual time that you hit the button so it comes back up and keep the count running.
Are there things I miss from my WM device, sure. Are there things that the iPhone does better than WM does? Sure. Are there things WM does better than the iPhone, sure.
How much does each one crash? I'd say a touch more on WM, but that is because I have a great ROM that a dedicated chef cooked up here at XDA. Comparing stock to stock though, is no comparison. The iPhone wins hands down in that regard.
Is there any free online task (to-do) list that can sync with the tasks in pocket outlook?
I have a few criteria:
1) It can't be through Outlook - I don't have it and don't want to pay for it
2) I don't want to use MyPhone - It would be fine if most of the fields weren't missing with the online interface
3) It has to be free Otherwise I'd just use RTM or Toodledo/Nuevasync
4) It has to sync with pocket outlook - I don't want to use a 3rd party task app
Please? Anybody? There are so many ways to sync either calendar or contacts but none for tasks! I've been looking for so long!
I used to use mail2web but they became not-free...
Thank you in advance...
Have you heart about "EssentialPIM"? Please google for this
http://www.essentialpim.com/de/index.php
borisku said:
Have you heart about "EssentialPIM"? Please google for this
http://www.essentialpim.com/de/index.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply, but I can't get the free version of essentialPIM to sync. I believe only the full version supports this (and that costs money).
Bump
Is there no program or site which will allow me to sync my tasks for free?
Any free desktop PIM app or site will do... (MyPhone's task support is too anemic for my tastes.)
Anyone? Please...
Have you tried funambol? I've lost track with the current status, but it's the open source tool for synchronising calendars and address books of various flavours, as well as providing push email - over the air to all supported phones. I've never used it for tasks, but it may also sync them (there is certainly an option to sync tasks in the funambol client on my phone). You would need to look into it for yourself.
trentend said:
Have you tried funambol? I've lost track with the current status, but it's the open source tool for synchronising calendars and address books of various flavours, as well as providing push email - over the air to all supported phones. I've never used it for tasks, but it may also sync them (there is certainly an option to sync tasks in the funambol client on my phone). You would need to look into it for yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their system is weird. It lets you sync for free for 60 days and from then on you can get more time if you 'help funambol' (post about it, help bugfix it etc...)
Thanks for reminding me about funambol in any case - Will look into it.
Any other ideas? Anyone? I can't possibly be the only person in this position!
Here's one that seems to be permanently free and not only gives you OTA live synch of Tasks it does Calendar and push mail as well. Oh, it can also be used with an existing OTA Exchange account.
Lotus Greenhouse Traveler, you will need to register and then download their Traveler client, but after that its a case of let it get on with it.
deedee said:
Here's one that seems to be permanently free and not only gives you OTA live synch of Tasks it does Calendar and push mail as well. Oh, it can also be used with an existing OTA Exchange account.
Lotus Greenhouse Traveler, you will need to register and then download their Traveler client, but after that its a case of let it get on with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting. I never thought of free hosted lotuslive solutions - though I was actively looking for free exchange ones. Will look into this... thanks
Think most people tend to only think of Exchange based solutions as MS are the predominant provider of office based email. As we are a Domino shop at work i tend to keep an eye on what they are doing and thought it might fit your requirements.
Any other ideas? Anyone? I can't possibly be the only person in this position!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Thank you for calling Microsoft Innovation Center Support Line, all of our agents are busy helping other customers. For faster service please see Android OS..."
Just a joke to start the day.
I am not certain your exact needs, but I want to put two things in front of you, in case you are not familiar with:
(1) OGGsync -- which i don't think is exactly what you want but take a look. It enables you to sync from Windows desktop Outlook to Gmail to windows mobile. It may sound like a weird system, but it has eliminated all that active sync crap. Still, it may not do what you want. And it's a small purchase of $30, i think annually... But it cuts through all the myriad of problems of Active sync cables etc.
SEE SIMPLE OVERVIEW HERE: http://oggsync.com/
SEE REVIEW from WMexperts here: http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/ogg_sync_for_windows_mobile.html
(2) ZOHO: This is just around the corner, but I think it's going to be one of the best solutions; I;m not sure of parts of it are there now or not.
Everyone knows of the "Google Cloud" suite of web apps: Gmail, Calendar, Documents, Spreadsheets, and so on. But surprisingly few people know about ZOHO -- a web-based business suite of apps competitor who many reviewers over the past few years have said is superior to Google, product after product. And Zoho has so many more apps it's hard to believe how "unknown" they are, like great project management software, one of the best wiki software designs EVER, made for non-techie people... etc. If I recall, I think individual usage of all of Zoho's web apps is free.
HERE, from the ZOHO Business Suit forums, is the status of their sync system for Windows Mobile: http://forums.zoho.com/topic/mobile-sync
And a brief review, but tons of them if you want to explore further.
http://www.reviewsaurus.com/web-applications-reviews/zoho-works-on-your-windows-mobile-too/
quicksite said:
"Thank you for calling Microsoft Innovation Center Support Line, all of our agents are busy helping other customers. For faster service please see Android OS..."
Just a joke to start the day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol... I love WM. But its so annoying to see so many companies and web services making great iphone and android apps while completely ignoring windows mobile.
I am not certain your exact needs, but I want to put two things in front of you, in case you are not familiar with:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!
I've all ready looked at goosync. If I had to pay I'd much rather go for toodledo + nuevasync or RTM. They're both around $25 a month.
I'm fairly familiar with zoho, actually. I've had an account almost since they opened shop and they actually sponsored a competition at my old college (I did my undergrad in india, which is where I am from).
They haven't implemented their sync system yet.. so I am still holding out... but I will probably shift when they get it all working.
For now I am looking at the lotuslive solution posted above - It looks promising.
I only wish myphone had a better interface - more ajax and a greater emphasis on content management rather than just backup (integration with windows live wouldn't hurt either...)
Thanks anyways.
I'm sure someone will find all this very useful...
LOOK AT ME! COMPLETELY off-topic post!
charge1313 said:
Lol... I love WM. But its so annoying to see so many companies and web services making great iphone and android apps while completely ignoring windows mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, but in all fairness, where's the incentive? WM 7 already a year behind competition, pretty much even acknowledged by Ballmer, was due, finally, Feb 2010. Months after Android hit warp speed in October and then became the CHristmas, New Year's and now January story with Nexus One, even February is BEHIND significantly... but nobody needs to be reminded of that here.
I only recently switched to Android when i bought the HTC hero in early December-- after 5 years with WM on my old T-mobile Wing (Herald) and prior to that my T-Mobile MDA. Both were unusable til I discovered, then hung out in, XDA community 3+ years ago. With the great ROM chefs and app developers here, they single-handedly kept WM alive by making the whole OS and app suites finger friendly and fast -- providing great options instead of iphone for those who got wowed by the instant success (and obviousness once Apple made it happen) of finger-navigable touchscreens.
Point being, now WM 7 slipped to June 2010, and from twitter feeds I subscribe to, possibly now not even til September 2010!
Prob in that same time frame, Google will have released not just the Nexus Two phone (possibly the Motorola Shadow - a phone with slide down keyboard, kind of like the Pre), but maybe even a Nexus Three phone, and god only knows what kind of updates to Android.
I don't really much care what Apple does in this realm because I hate AT&T so badly that even if Apple does indeed revamp the iphone form factor and architecture and get it up to speed with real multi-tasking, Apple shall remain punished by me for making their exclusive deal with the devil. (Believe it or not, some consumers still vote against really bad corporate decisions with pocket book). I am an Apple user in the desktop/laptop realm, but could care less about the iphone... but even THEY are moving forward in this Jan-September timeframe. Everyone knows Apple refreshes their lines every 3 years or so, and they make big leaps, not small ones.
I have no doubt WM 7 will be a good OS, I really believe it WILL be -- and it better be -- or for sure it would, by September, be game over for Windows Mobile if they launch an already late OS rethink that, upon finally launching, doesn't wow the pants off the competition and consumers. I suspect it will follow the UI experience of the Zune HD, which I think has been very good, with a very interesting UI concept of Zooming-in deeply into a subject matter area, like Music, and zooming out with a kind of 3D effect of moving in space behind the screen surface. (Hmm, looks like I am not the only one who thinks so -- but this article at MobileTechWorld also trashes the Russian blogger who claims to have seen it in action)
Add this additional news to the mix and there are slimmer and slimmer reasons why someone would want to stick with WM and take that risk. (HTC has now shipped to stores its capacitive screen stylus -- puncturing yet another hole in the "must have windows mobile to work with mobile phone spreadsheets" desperation about why the world still NEEDS windows mobile.)
The final argument of course is "anyone serious about running business apps" and "anyone whose corporate IT dept requires Microsoft Exchange server compatibility will NEED to run windows mobile"... I have to say to anyone raising those arguments: PROVE IT. Which apps exactly can only run on WM... maybe yes, there is a valid case to be made. But the generalization, to me, is no longer valid -- in the same way 15 years ago people said apple could never be taken seriously in a business environment because it doesn;t run MS Office -- then of course it did, and that argument became moot.
I'm not acting all smug about my own shift to Android -- becasue there are for SURE some significant things I miss from my WM phone which I had 5 years ago -- jotting down notes using a stylus, or drawing a quick sketch to show someone an idea, or graphical illustration... I also miss the damn up-down-left-right D-pad, which is way way WAY better than the trackball on most android devices other than Sane Samsung who preserved the D-pad... wait come to think of it, so did Motorola on both their Oct-Nov-Dec new phones.
I'm just saying that in addition to my actually loving that Hero phone, and the HTC senseUI (which, yes, can & does run on WM as well), that I just don't feel like I have anything to lose by jettisoning WM for good... sorry to say.
BUT -- if they have good reason to be so late with WM 7, because it;s filled with game-changing surprises*, then I will stuff all these words into my mouth and eat them. (*And that means more than cute fun facebook-headed people poking at Excel-headed people)
Now wait, what were we talking about? oh yes.
I've all ready looked at OGGsync. If I had to pay I'd much rather go for toodledo + nuevasync or RTM. They're both around $25 a month.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two things: I regret even bringing it up, because I hadn't read your post carefully -- but only read the headline... So I missed the boat by miles because once i read the post you said clearly: NO OUTLOOK! and NO FEES!
Still, just to clarify, OGGsync is $30/year, not month. And I guess my question is, what about Google Sync? If I recall, once I synced all my WM pocket Outlook contacts to big bro Outlook on my PC, then synced all those to Gmail, then I was able to, i am pretty sure, sync my WM pocket outlook with Google Sync, using Google Calendar -- which I'd already been using for past 3 years, abandoning Outlook (like you) all together.
I'm fairly familiar with zoho, actually. I've had an account almost since they opened shop... I'm sure someone will find all this very useful...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never switched to Zoho, but I prob would if I didn't work for self, and someone else just took care of moving all my stuff there and just making it happen for me!
good luck with lotus, hope it works. sorry for my off-topic editorial ....
^^ Lol. I can't help but laugh. I empathise with you so much!
quicksite said:
I only recently switched to Android when i bought the HTC hero in early December-- after 5 years with WM on my old T-mobile Wing (Herald) and prior to that my T-Mobile MDA. Both were unusable til I discovered, then hung out in, XDA community 3+ years ago. With the great ROM chefs and app developers here, they single-handedly kept WM alive by making the whole OS and app suites finger friendly and fast -- providing great options instead of iphone for those who got wowed by the instant success (and obviousness once Apple made it happen) of finger-navigable touchscreens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what? Personally, I don't like the whole finger-friendly thing. I want speed and capability and information density. I don't care how easy it is to get from A to Z - I want to get there fast and effectively even if the learning curve is steep. Which is why I thought that the pinacle of windows mobile was the Axim X51 - It was fast and powerful and had features that outclass many of today's handsets.
6.5 was a let down - it actually killed functionality while giving me nothing. Titanium is the best example of this - Its nice to look at but it the end, it has less info per screen than the old home, takes longer to work with and is MUCH less configurable.
My current windows phone is a samsung jack. Its windows mobile standard. And IMO its the best mobile OS out there now. Except for one single thing - the lack of damn apps.
You'd think there would be thousands of apps considering the number of blackjacks out there but nooooo...
Windows mobile is the (Or should have been) the no-nonsense OS. It should be crazy configurable if you want it to be but just extremly usable if you're not into all that - a system that syncs with anything, works with every service and is in general the best PDA man has yet conceived. Sadly it isn't there any more..
Now wait, what were we talking about? oh yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol.. its ok. I've gone on my own WM rants all too often. I know exactly where you are coming from.
[/I][/B] If I recall, once I synced all my WM pocket Outlook contacts to big bro Outlook on my PC, then synced all those to Gmail, then I was able to, i am pretty sure, sync my WM pocket outlook with Google Sync, using Google Calendar -- which I'd already been using for past 3 years, abandoning Outlook (like you) all together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google sync doesn't support tasks. Otherwise I'd use it. I use soocial for my contacts, gcal (through nuevasync) for my calendar and now I guess lotus for my tasks - remarkably inelegant but I guess I have little choice.
I have never switched to Zoho, but I prob would if I didn't work for self, and someone else just took care of moving all my stuff there and just making it happen for me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am uncomfortable with having all my stuff in the cloud -I firmly believe that cloud services can only complement local services.. something like the office live solution. Tasks and calendar are something else - mostly because my choices are so limited
good luck with lotus, hope it works. sorry for my off-topic editorial ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol. Thanks. And absolutely zero hard feelings...
I learned a lot from you on this thread, though i didn't help you at all
I hear you re information per screen, information density
Okay, i admit that mny T-mobile wing running WM 6.1 with custom rom from Ivan here at XDA just kicked ass, and still does. Funny but it has better version of google maps than google maps on my hero android phone.. i surely don't get that.
For me, having that stylus tucked in, avail at moment's need, AND using finger nav is best of all worlds. in the car, with my t-mobile wing mounted, i could actually safely make a call... but without finger nav, i'd crash and kill self with just a stylus and tiny target. so we'll agree that it all boils down to: what are your purposes for the device... all of them. in all conditions...
only then are comparisons valid. if any phone meets all a user's needs, then it's the best phone period for that person.
thanks again,
so i guess you won't be getting the Nexus Two any time soon, huh?
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quicksite said:
For me, having that stylus tucked in, avail at moment's need, AND using finger nav is best of all worlds. in the car, with my t-mobile wing mounted, i could actually safely make a call... but without finger nav, i'd crash and kill self with just a stylus and tiny target. so we'll agree that it all boils down to: what are your purposes for the device... all of them. in all conditions...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My old gene had a D-Pad. And WM 6.1 was VERY D-Pad friendly. If I ever needed to use the phone one-handed I just used to use the D-Pad and the softkeys.
The modern WM phones lack this too (hence my statement of only WM standard rocking now)
only then are comparisons valid. if any phone meets all a user's needs, then it's the best phone period for that person.
thanks again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
,
Very true. In the end, I want my phone to help me get things done, not as an entertainment device or anything else. Hence my statement about WM standard rocking. Copilot live, for example, has a great interface - its actually faster than using a touchscreen and needs less involvement.
so i guess you won't be getting the Nexus Two any time soon, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a student in the US without and aid. Hence no. Not a chance in hell unless I get a ton of cash.
I suspect my next phone will be WM7 (my Jack's contract is only a few months old).. leaves plenty of time for WM 7 to release and for a decent app market to develop.
I hope.
Or else I'll go for whichever android device I can find (I need multitasking - this basically kills the Iphone)
I feel i am compelled to respond to a nit with a nit , hah ha. re:
charge1313 said:
My old gene had a D-Pad. And WM 6.1 was VERY D-Pad friendly. If I ever needed to use the phone one-handed I just used to use the D-Pad and the softkeys. The modern WM phones lack this too (hence my statement of only WM standard rocking now)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here again i agree. My T-Mobile Wing's hard key layout and D-pad has been the most ergonomically useful and hence fastest phone to use of any i have ever used in stores, trying out friends' stuff, etc.
I had its predecessor, the MDA, and the Wing completely became an ergonomic pleasure to use. whether I used my left hand or my right hand, the additional hard keys on sides of the phone, plus the bottom of the phone, hit exactly in the right spots re hands, finger, thumbs. And though it was mostly a remake of the MDA (both HTC phones), the Wing nailed it for me where the MDA was, pardon the expression, a piece of crap for me, though also my first touchscreen phone.
So, once again i hear ya re the relative efficiences of using dpad and dedicated hard keys that can be reassignable. My "OK" button map mapped to the top right of the phone where the defauilt Comm Manager button was -- and when holding in my left hand, my middle finger was right there on it. Same finger could slide down just a bit to hit the other dedicated button, which i mapped to voice recorder, since I recorded audio notes frequenty.
My thumb was on the camera button which i remapped to Start menu. Sliding my thumb down to the D-pad was smooth, no bumps at all, and instant recognitoon even in the dark what the functions were and so easy to press in quad direction, then click enter/center. Similarly the ergonomic design of the Call button and end button, and the 2 additional keys around each, was just the height of ergonomic perfection. No way of mistaking which key was which, yet a slight shift in any direction and the desired key was hit perpectly, and not requiring a lot ofpressure.. just the right amount, plus tactile feedback with hardware clicks for certainty of entry. The okay button doen there by the end call i remapped to "Today", which always made home screen 1-click away for times when an app didn't have an easy-access close-button.
Im used WKtask -- which not enough people use in my view.. one of thebest UI utilities besides QuickMenu... my thumb could easily arc to top of the taskbar to tap an icon to switch tasks, or press-hold to end any app, or minimize any app, thus guiving me extra manual control over memory management, and closing apps, or quickly switching to them.
Sliding out the keyboard was so simple because the left fingers wrapped around the device were already positiioned to push the top screen to reveal the keyboard. Everyuthing fit in the hand perfectly...
Which leads to my last comment... I love my new HTC Hero for its size and ergonomics.. I have not used yet some of these new larger screen devices but if the WING and the HERO fit perfectly into my hand in its natural resting position of fingers, then it seems logical to guess that larger device require a wider grasp -- even if miniscule, which activates all sort of other micro-muscles in fingers, thumb, and palm of hand --
I am guessing there will be not one person who will ever fess up that a larger device results in some slight or more-than-slight greater muscular fatigue of the hand and repetitive stress.
So even though you're focus is on WM6 - THE KING! -- my focus is on how HTC learned to optimize the controls of WM6, making the WING, for example, a phenomenal exmaple of product design.
Now since lots of HTC devices held similar footprimnts, maybe lots of HTC devices had the same kind of ergonomic optimization as the WING, prob so.
I can just speak to the wing.... So, there is no way I would credit WM alone for the usability "sweet spot" you have liked. Without great product design, you'd have tossed your phone in the trash long ago. We'll never know that for sure, so I can't bet you on it. But i would if i could.
thanks again for a truly rare discussion about human usability vs whiz-bang. Way too little of the former occupies this site, way more the latter dominates the site.
Try the my Funambol service - http://my.funambol.com , free
I wish the mods could SPLIT this thread - to preserve the "future of WM"
The off-topic discussion here was prob of more use than the initial intent by charge1313. And even though there have been many many MANY threads on WM's survivability as a player platform, this discussion moved to hardware as well, and to the trend of more and more elimination of hardware buttons placed strategically around the device's to enable your fingers to control many things besides the screen.
just my opinion ... but I have many of them .. so i am sure the world is fine without a split thread
Here again i agree. My T-Mobile Wing's hard key layout and D-pad has been the most ergonomically useful and hence fastest phone to use of any i have ever used in stores, trying out friends' stuff, etc.
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The same can be said of my gene. With a custom 6.1 rom (for here, of course) it was the fastest smartphone anyone I knew had. Despite having a lousey 200mghz processor and next to no ram. Of course, thats also because I ran it overclocked to 247 Mghz.
It had a ton of configurable keys - most of them configured to do a whole series of context based events via mortscript.
So, once again i hear ya re the relative efficiences of using dpad and dedicated hard keys that can be reassignable. My "OK" button map mapped to the top right of the phone where the defauilt Comm Manager button was -- and when holding in my left hand, my middle finger was right there on it. Same finger could slide down just a bit to hit the other dedicated button, which i mapped to voice recorder, since I recorded audio notes frequenty.
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Neat. Did you use mortscript?
My thumb was on the camera button which i remapped to Start menu.
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Exactly like my gene. Except there I had it mapped to a task manager.
Boy, did they know how to build phones back in the day.
Im used WKtask -- which not enough people use in my view.. one of thebest UI utilities besides QuickMenu... my thumb could easily arc to top of the taskbar to tap an icon to switch tasks, or press-hold to end any app, or minimize any app, thus guiving me extra manual control over memory management, and closing apps, or quickly switching to them.
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I've used both - several of my favorite roms actually came with WKtask by default. But in the end I found that simply using the default 6.1 task manager was the lightest and the best.
Still, I've jumped back and forth between using WKtask, Quickmenu etc enough times to know how awesome they were.
And this, again, brings me back to why my jack rocks. I can open up a site or an app from the home screen and actually do something useful (like, say, check my tasks on agenda one) faster than an android device (htc dream) or an ipod touch/iphone.
Without great product design, you'd have tossed your phone in the trash long ago. We'll never know that for sure, so I can't bet you on it. But i would if i could.
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I second that. HTC's design was brilliant. And so was Samsung's with the blackjacks and the jack. IMO the current crop of WM devices are a result of misguided logic. Microsoft and HTC have looked at the success of the iphone and created a hybrid system which lacks the strengths of either. Thats their failing - trying to do something they were never good while ignoring their awesome lead in actual productivity and flexibility.
Seriously, take a dell axim and see how well you can do stuff with it. I bet if microsoft had put their efforts into making WM 7 the natural progression of the WM series (exclude 6.5 please) it would be out by now and a device like the touch pro would completely kick the iphone in terms of general usage.
The off-topic discussion here was prob of more use than the initial intent by charge1313. And even though there have been many many MANY threads on WM's survivability as a player platform, this discussion moved to hardware as well, and to the trend of more and more elimination of hardware buttons placed strategically around the device's to enable your fingers to control many things besides the screen.
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I won't argue against this. The original intent of this thread has largely been satisfied.
I've found an exchange class solution for my needs
If the mods think its sensible to split this thread then please do so..